Ratings & Reactions: Everton v Villa

[TRO]

2 hours ago, allani said:

It wasn't one of our best performances - no.  But it was still considerably better than most of our performances from not so long ago.  We had a plan, the players knew what the plan was and stuck with it.  Unfortunately, we didn't get the goal that we probably (just) deserved but we created chances and we pretty much nullified Everton's threat.  A 0-0 draw is frustrating but there were (in my opinion) more positives than negatives.  Perhaps the biggest positive again is that we are disappointed with a 0-0 away from home where we played the better football that is light years away from where we were not that long ago.  Also the fact that Everton set up at home to try and counter our threats is a pretty good sign of the progress we have made.  When teams are happy to take a point against us then things are generally looking good (it really wasn't that long ago that most teams would see us as a great opportunity for 3 points - home or away).

I actually thought (apart from the opening 15 minutes when McGinn in particular seemed to lose the ball every time he got it) we did better when Everton did come after us.  Sure there were a couple of times where we ended up having to just get rid of the ball - but we also created some really good openings when we slipped the Everton press in our box and were able to quickly bypass their entire midfield and get our forwards attacking their defence.  This typically allowed our forwards to position themselves further away from their defenders and so we weren't so susceptible to the man-handling that made it more difficult when we were dominating possession and position and Everton were defending the edge of their box in numbers.

I don't think our attackers were particularly passive - a lot of runs were blocked off illegally and Watkins was wrestled / manhandled out of things too much.

For me the issue is less about the tactics and more about the balance of our team.  McGinn, Diaby, Bailey and Ollie are all better at attacking players / space at pace (I'd also add Zaniolo and Ramsey to this list).  Kamara and Luiz are good at spotting passes and making space from slightly further back.  Without Tielemans we don't really have anyone who is really comfortable with the ball at feet in a crowded space on the edge of the opposition area.  Ollie's come on a lot this year but he's not going to trick his way past two or three defenders and his ability to make space for himself in a congested penalty area isn't great.  Diaby's struggling for confidence as I do think that his acceleration and quick feet should allow him to make space in tight spaces as well as when there is more space.  Bailey's doing that better but doesn't always make the best decision when he does find a yard of space (it kind of feels like he wants two yards to really commit). 

So I do think that's an area where we need another option - either someone tricky who can work some magic on the crowded edge of the box or someone who is a bit better at either ghosting into space in the box (and thereby creating a target for our midfielders / wide players to hit) or who can be a bit more muscular and push/bully defenders a bit more.  The trick is really that those players also need to work with our Plan A - i.e. the switch between Plan A and Plan B shouldn't necessitate changes from the bench (as that is a bit telegraphed) but we should be able to apply either as a particular situation unfolds.  That said I think there are a couple of things to note. 

Firstly, I thought Lenglet actually looked pretty good yesterday - but the fact remains that with either Pau or Mings playing in that position our quick transitions from deep are better AND (at least in terms of Pau) we're also better at picking out players in a more congested final third.  Knocking the ball back to Pau is less of a "reset" and more of a "can we find a different angle to play an attacking ball". 

Secondly, as I said above Tielemans is probably our best player at find a short pass in a congested area.  So those two coming back will provide us with some additional weapons against teams that set up like Everton did.  I'm still not convinced by Buendia (in terms of whether he's a top 6 player) but he'd be a good option for trying to unlock these kind of teams - and without his injury I think we'd have found out whether he "fits" this season one way or the other.  I am not sure that Bailey / Diaby work as a pairing especially away from home.  Tielemans gives us a better balance and also allows us to play McGinn in his better position.  I thought we looked more threatening once Tielemans came on yesterday and I do think that if he had been on the field from the start then we'd probably have found a way to score at least once.

Thirdly, I do think that signing a proper RB allows us to play Pau and Konsa in the middle - which I think is comfortably our best defensive pairing.  Carlos looks like he would have been a great signing (if he hadn't got injured) for the way we used to play but I don't think his distribution is anywhere near the level of Konsa or Pau.  I think this means that not only would we be better at unpicking packed defences from the central position - but it would also give us more balance left - right.  Cash doesn't really offer enough in terms of overlapping down the right and Konsa doesn't look comfortable trying to do it either.  So a RB who can ideally cross and defend well means that we can switch flanks more quickly and also play our strongest pairing of CBs.

So I do think we're only a couple of players returning from injury / maybe a couple of players off having the tools we need to adjust to the issues / challenges that you've identified.  We are tweaks away rather than wholesale change.  Weirdly, I kind of think that had we been less successful and were currently 6th on say 36 or 37 points then we'd probably be a little less concerned about performances like yesterday as we'd be comparing ourselves more with West Ham, Man Utd, Brighton, Chelsea, Newcastle, etc all of whom have either similar issues or bigger.  As it is we've kind of skipped straight past a "let's have a season where we are in the fight for the top 6 all season long" straight into a "we could finish in the top 4" battle - and so we're suddenly all comparing the tools we have to teams like City, Liverpool and Arsenal who quite frankly have had a good 15 years head start on us (minimum) in terms of the level of investment to build a rounded and balanced squad.  Obviously that is a good thing but I think it does mean that we are undoubtedly entering that fight with fewer options than we (and Emery) would like.  So I do think we need to be slightly careful that we don't become too critical.  There are too many examples of pressure rising on outperforming teams / managers too quickly and changes being made when people forget that actually the team is developing ahead of realistic expectations.  We shouldn't be getting on top of the team or Emery if we have these types of games this season.  Any finish of 7th or above is still a step forward from last season.  That doesn't mean that we can't aim to do better given the first 21 matches of this season but I do feel that there's almost the start of a "we're awful because we aren't going to win the title" sentiment (absolutely not from you - just to be 100% clear!) and we need to make sure that doesn't happen and that the fans continue to support the team and give them confidence to achieve more than we expected at the start of the season rather than start putting pressure on them because we might not achieve what we might have dreamed about a week before Christmas.

Firstly, I concur with most of that, it was only what I expected from you, an eloquently balanced rendition.

for the record....My intentions are not to criticise, but to observe and I kinda like this position in the top 4 and I write with an intention to stay there....that will be a huge challenge, That huge challenge, will require, character, hard work, and a steely determination to succeed, allied to our already obvious talent....not instead of.

I am not in favour, of drifting back in to where we have come from, because we all know now, how bad that was, and how far "off it" we was.....UE has set his stall out, and what a grand stall it is.

Unai should be judged against himself, now.....its the fairest way, because he is so far advanced on anything we have seen from the past.

We are WIP and I am not forgetting that, but I am also aware of the dangers of complacency too.....we all like it, where we are, but its so easy to slip back, or take our foot off the gas....that is Unai's big test for me.

I want to be clear, I am not attempting to watch the game for other folk, they have their opinions, like I have mine.....but I saw things in the game against Everton, I thought we could do better......0-0 away from home is far from an issue, but hand on heart, we had the wherewithal to have beaten them....and many of us thought we should have, given the league placings, which get raised in many posts...... I am actually not as convinced that league placings influence a game....what the players do in a game does.

The Eye test tells me, Man City still rely on what they do in a game, not just their reputation.....Man U under SAF was just the same.....application was key.

In my opinion, those that talk about winning the title, are a bit excitable, however, I feel for their sense of adventure, and passion for reaching high targets.....but expectation should be excluded....we are still not quite good enough to be expecting too much.

I understand, how varying personalities view our renaissance, and this journey is great, I try to understand the thinking from the cautious, to the precipitous....for me an my sins, I think you are only as strong as your weakest link, so that could mean, you are only as good as your worst game......consistency is what Unai is in pursuit of, he has said so, and I think he is right, on that note, we have a bit of work to do.....which is to be expected.

but please don't think I have dismissed the Man City and Arsenal games, as flukes......against City that was amongst the best Villa performances, I have seen in my few years watching Villa, and Tha Arsenal game was not far off......so we can do it.

so far.................Great.

Edited January 15 by TRO

[TRO]

41 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

Eh - City have KDB. 
 
For as much guff as people talk about Rodri, and he is important, they’ve been very mortal without KDB. 
 
Stick KDB in this Villa side and Ollie will have 20+ goals easy and we win yesterday at a slight cantor. 
 
I kind of have to laugh @TRO . If only it were so easy to have either the best CDM in the world, or the best midfielder, or 100M Declan Rice!

 We’re about 3rd-5th right now and Everton showed us nothing we don’t already know. We don’t create enough chances or have the players to consistently open up teams in the final third playing low blocks. 

baring a wonderful save from our goalie, we could have faced a 1-0 defeat.....I think it was the best chance in the game....i get if my auntie had conkers, she would be my uncle.

I get that.....but we have to aim somewhere, high is a kinda ambitious place.......it wasn't so long ago Man City, were bridesmaids to Man U.....Sure money, talks, so does elite coaching, and they have that too.

West Ham and Brighton are not known for gifting goals, and we beat them handsomely....I think we have the talent to take on the low block, not sure of elements though.

 

 

[TRO]

36 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

We are a fiercely competitive team as is proven by our 2023 points tally. We’ve been missing Tielemans and Pau recently and it has shown. 

In some games yes.....in others no...is my opinion.....consistency is key.

if you think we are, that's fine.

[DJBOB]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

baring a wonderful save from our goalie, we could have faced a 1-0 defeat.....I think it was the best chance in the game....i get if my auntie had conkers, she would be my uncle.

I get that.....but we have to aim somewhere, high is a kinda ambitious place.......it wasn't so long ago Man City, were bridesmaids to Man U.....Sure money, talks, so does elite coaching, and they have that too.

West Ham and Brighton are not known for gifting goals, and we beat them handsomely....I think we have the talent to take on the low block, not sure of elements though.

 

 

That’s why we play the high line the way we do, because we have a world class keeper. 
 
Brighton have no semblance of a low block and West Ham was a good day. That was also very early in the season when managers did not yet know how good we truly were.
 
Im not sure how many examples everyone needs of our struggles against a low block. 
 
Mostar at home, Forest away, Legia at home, Brentford away, Sheffield at home, Burnley at home, Boro away, Everton away. 
 
You can even see how increasingly teams are sitting back against us and playing anti-football for the most part as the season goes on. 
 
That they are doing so is a great sign of respect. As Wilder said - Villa have blown the doors off teams that want to play. He wasn’t going to be shamed into playing into our hands. 
 
Ironically, I think we’re ahead of schedule and didn’t buy in the summer the player to unlock these low blocks. 
 

[TRO]

17 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

That’s why we play the high line the way we do, because we have a world class keeper. 
 
Brighton have no semblance of a low block and West Ham was a good day. That was also very early in the season when managers did not yet know how good we truly were.
 
Im not sure how many examples everyone needs of our struggles against a low block. 
 
Mostar at home, Forest away, Legia at home, Brentford away, Sheffield at home, Burnley at home, Boro away, Everton away. 
 
You can even see how increasingly teams are sitting back against us and playing anti-football for the most part as the season goes on. 
 
That they are doing so is a great sign of respect. As Wilder said - Villa have blown the doors off teams that want to play. He wasn’t going to be shamed into playing into our hands. 
 
Ironically, I think we’re ahead of schedule and didn’t buy in the summer the player to unlock these low blocks. 
 

didn't we play a low block at Spurs a while ago, playing 6 at the back, and we come away with a win.

I'm not sure its helpful calling it anti-football......its like calling safety play, anti-snooker......a bit of anti-football against Utd, when we was 2-0 up, might have helped, like it did at Spurs. 

No one is going to lay the table for us.We need to look inwardly for solutions, not outwardly.

I think you are right, with your examples....but that's a fair list, and a good reason to address it.

when we won the league in 1980/81 we had 7 local teams who had reason to want to stop us.....that took a really competitive approach, not just our talent....Character, was key, to get over the line, in those games, they all wanted to beat Villa.

Moving forward, it's a trait, we have to develop imo.

Edited January 15 by TRO

[allani]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

Firstly, I concur with most of that, it was only what I expected from you, an eloquently balanced rendition.

for the record....My intentions are not to criticise, but to observe and I kinda like this position in the top 4 and I write with an intention to stay there....that will be a huge challenge, That huge challenge, will require, character, hard work, and a steely determination to succeed, allied to our already obvious talent....not instead of.

I am not in favour, of drifting back in to where we have come from, because we all know now, how bad that was, and how far "off it" we was.....UE has set his stall out, and what a grand stall it is.

Unai should be judged against himself, now.....its the fairest way, because he is so far advanced on anything we have seen from the past.

We are WIP and I am not forgetting that, but I am also aware of the dangers of complacency too.....we all like it, where we are, but its so easy to slip back, or take our foot off the gas....that is Unai's big test for me.

I want to be clear, I am not attempting to watch the game for other folk, they have their opinions, like I have mine.....but I saw things in the game against Everton, I thought we could do better......0-0 away from home is far from an issue, but hand on heart, we had the wherewithal to have beaten them....and many of us thought we should have, given the league placings, which get raised in many posts...... I am actually not as convinced that league placings influence a game....what the players do in a game does.

The Eye test tells me, Man City still rely on what they do in a game, not just their reputation.....Man U under SAF was just the same.....application was key.

In my opinion, those that talk about winning the title, are a bit excitable, however, I feel for their sense of adventure, and passion for reaching high targets.....but expectation should be excluded....we are still not quite good enough to be expecting too much.

I understand, how varying personalities view our renaissance, and this journey is great, I try to understand the thinking from the cautious, to the precipitous....for me an my sins, I think you are only as strong as your weakest link, so that could mean, you are only as good as your worst game......consistency is what Unai is in pursuit of, he has said so, and I think he is right, on that note, we have a bit of work to do.....which is to be expected.

but please don't think I have dismissed the Man City and Arsenal games, as flukes......against City that was amongst the best Villa performances, I have seen in my few years watching Villa, and Tha Arsenal game was not far off......so we can do it.

so far.................Great.

Yeah - I really enjoy our discussions on all matters Villa and think on most things we share pretty close opinions.

I wasn't suggesting that there aren't things that we can't do better - especially in games like yesterday.  But I still think we did enough to win the game and on the balance of play a 1-0 win for us would have been more representative of the match than a 1-0 for them.  That's a massive step forward from where we have been.  I am sure that Emery has already identified and gone through elements of the game with the team and explained where they could have done better.  I'm convinced that he and they are determined to keep improving and finish this season as strongly as possible.  I also don't think he'll be telling players that they are playing at the top of their games - he'll praise them and encourage them but he'll also be demanding more.  So I don't think we'll be complacent as a team. 

I do think however that our style of play - to be patient and to try and drag opposition players out of position to exploit the space behind them - can sometimes look like we're not trying or not working hard enough.  But pressing the fast-forward button and running around at 100mph - as some suggest - isn't the answer.  We will be better with Tielemans and Pau back in the team.  We'll then recruit the players that make us a more rounded team and better able to respond to different situations.  I also think that when Diaby recovers his mojo he's the type of player who can do some of things you've identified as areas where we need to be better. 

At the end of the day I'm looking at the weekend as another match chalked off between now and the end of the season where we have maintained our gap over Spurs.

[TRO]

19 minutes ago, allani said:

Yeah - I really enjoy our discussions on all matters Villa and think on most things we share pretty close opinions.

I wasn't suggesting that there aren't things that we can't do better - especially in games like yesterday.  But I still think we did enough to win the game and on the balance of play a 1-0 win for us would have been more representative of the match than a 1-0 for them.  That's a massive step forward from where we have been.  I am sure that Emery has already identified and gone through elements of the game with the team and explained where they could have done better.  I'm convinced that he and they are determined to keep improving and finish this season as strongly as possible.  I also don't think he'll be telling players that they are playing at the top of their games - he'll praise them and encourage them but he'll also be demanding more.  So I don't think we'll be complacent as a team. 

I do think however that our style of play - to be patient and to try and drag opposition players out of position to exploit the space behind them - can sometimes look like we're not trying or not working hard enough.  But pressing the fast-forward button and running around at 100mph - as some suggest - isn't the answer.  We will be better with Tielemans and Pau back in the team.  We'll then recruit the players that make us a more rounded team and better able to respond to different situations.  I also think that when Diaby recovers his mojo he's the type of player who can do some of things you've identified as areas where we need to be better. 

At the end of the day I'm looking at the weekend as another match chalked off between now and the end of the season where we have maintained our gap over Spurs.

I agree.

I get a tad frustrated when I see a will o' wisp like Diaby, being so stationary to a thug like Tarkowski, who can get purchase on him.....he should be running rings around players like him.

I look at Almiron and Gordon and their assertiveness trumps our wingers at present..I see Bowen, with so much self belief and tenacity....leading the team.

Our boys, need to believe in themselves more, and show an assertive front, they have enough athleticism in them, to be shadows to most defenders....Tony Morley, was like the ones above.

Edited January 15 by TRO

[allani]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree.

I get a tad frustrated when I see a will o' wisp like Diaby, being so stationary to a thug like Tarkowski, who can get purchase on him.....he should be running rings around players like him.

I look at Almiron and Gordon and their assertiveness trumps our wingers at present..I see Bowen, with so much self belief and tenacity....leading the team.

Our boys, need to believe in themselves more, and show an assertive front, they have enough athleticism in them, to be shadows to most defenders....Tony Morley, was like the ones above.

I don't disagree - but have you seen Newcastle's form compared to ours over the last month or so?  For all that Almiron and Gordon are doing well - they're also failing to convert that into results.   Bowen's very much a player that I would like to see play in the right claret and blue.  But unfortunately I don't see that happening.  Obviously they play slightly different positions but I still think that Diaby will turn out good - he just needs to get some confidence.

[onmeedson]

Never a good sign when your goalkeeper is Motm

[CVByrne]

13 hours ago, Herman22 said:

Question for you! Why is there such a difference in xG from one site to another. This one says 0.99 to 1.82. Tells you Villa should’ve won the match. 

But then I see this website saying it’s 1.04 to 1.34 making it seem a lot more even. 

https://understat.com/match/22098

Only 2 decent models are the ones on understat and opta (fbref). Former usually has higher numbers. It comes down to how they register each chance, I think opta are the best

[Stevo985]

10 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Only 2 decent models are the ones on understat and opta (fbref). Former usually has higher numbers. It comes down to how they register each chance, I think opta are the best

I don't rate understat.

Opta/statsbomb are the reliable sources, imo

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

I blocked myself from the site after the game when I saw some of the reactions. Childish I know but I actually felt we played well and should have won. Still think it was a decent point. It feels like fans have been spoilt a little and expect us to win every game.

Edited January 16 by Vive_La_Villa

[TRO]

On 15/01/2024 at 18:07, allani said:

I don't disagree - but have you seen Newcastle's form compared to ours over the last month or so?  For all that Almiron and Gordon are doing well - they're also failing to convert that into results.   Bowen's very much a player that I would like to see play in the right claret and blue.  But unfortunately I don't see that happening.  Obviously they play slightly different positions but I still think that Diaby will turn out good - he just needs to get some confidence.

2 players, don't make a team....I was merely highlighting the belligerent style of those 2 players.

Our 2 have unbelieveable talent, but they play within themselves at times.....more so Diaby, not so much Bailey.....They should be driving at defences, and causing chaos.

Bailey lately has been our biggest threat, against Everton, he was passive.

[allani]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

2 players, don't make a team....I was merely highlighting the belligerent style of those 2 players.

Our 2 have unbelieveable talent, but they play within themselves at times.....more so Diaby, not so much Bailey.....They should be driving at defences, and causing chaos.

Bailey lately has been our biggest threat, against Everton, he was passive.

I know.  Sorry it was mainly tongue in check.  I know we've spoken privately about Almiron before.  And whilst I think that he's made a brilliant career (a bit like McGinn I think he's consistently played above his "ceiling" for a long time now) I'd still have Diaby or Bailey ahead of him.  All three are different types of players so it's hard to compare them objectively.  Gordon's done pretty well - I thought that Newcastle had overspent on him when they signed him from Everton but fair play he looks a dangerous player and worth the money.  He's still a bit of a **** but actually we probably need a little bit of that in the final third.  I think he'd be brilliant down our left - but again that's not a signing that is likely to happen. 

I do think you are right though that Ollie, Diaby and Bailey aren't the type of players who will do something nasty / naughty to fire everyone up and make something happen.  When we are firing they carry loads of attacking threat but I do think that when we know the opposition are going to be very physical then they're a bit lightweight.  Tielemans isn't a big lad but when he came on we looked more able to compete in the final third.

Also I'd love someone like Alan Shearer to spend some time with Ollie and pass on some of his secrets.  Shearer was one of those forwards who could foul defenders all day long and rarely get pinged and yet when he got anything back the referees were almost waiting to give a freekick in his favour.  He had a great habit of finding space when there wasn't any - either through making an intelligent run or by manhandling his marker out of the way.  He also wasn't averse to giving something back if he was being bullied - I'd have expected him to have made a late tackle of Tarkowski on Sunday just to remind him that even though the ref was letting him get away with everything then he wasn't.  I'm not suggesting that Ollie should cheat or try and hurt anyone - but I do think he needs to stand up for himself a bit more (especially when the refs aren't calling out fouls against him).

[PaulC]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

2 players, don't make a team....I was merely highlighting the belligerent style of those 2 players.

Our 2 have unbelieveable talent, but they play within themselves at times.....more so Diaby, not so much Bailey.....They should be driving at defences, and causing chaos.

Bailey lately has been our biggest threat, against Everton, he was passive.

Yes hence why we didn't create much. 

[TRO]

14 hours ago, allani said:

I know.  Sorry it was mainly tongue in check.  I know we've spoken privately about Almiron before.  And whilst I think that he's made a brilliant career (a bit like McGinn I think he's consistently played above his "ceiling" for a long time now) I'd still have Diaby or Bailey ahead of him.  All three are different types of players so it's hard to compare them objectively.  Gordon's done pretty well - I thought that Newcastle had overspent on him when they signed him from Everton but fair play he looks a dangerous player and worth the money.  He's still a bit of a **** but actually we probably need a little bit of that in the final third.  I think he'd be brilliant down our left - but again that's not a signing that is likely to happen. 

I do think you are right though that Ollie, Diaby and Bailey aren't the type of players who will do something nasty / naughty to fire everyone up and make something happen.  When we are firing they carry loads of attacking threat but I do think that when we know the opposition are going to be very physical then they're a bit lightweight.  Tielemans isn't a big lad but when he came on we looked more able to compete in the final third.

Also I'd love someone like Alan Shearer to spend some time with Ollie and pass on some of his secrets.  Shearer was one of those forwards who could foul defenders all day long and rarely get pinged and yet when he got anything back the referees were almost waiting to give a freekick in his favour.  He had a great habit of finding space when there wasn't any - either through making an intelligent run or by manhandling his marker out of the way.  He also wasn't averse to giving something back if he was being bullied - I'd have expected him to have made a late tackle of Tarkowski on Sunday just to remind him that even though the ref was letting him get away with everything then he wasn't.  I'm not suggesting that Ollie should cheat or try and hurt anyone - but I do think he needs to stand up for himself a bit more (especially when the refs aren't calling out fouls against him).

I concur.

Peter Withe and Andy Gray, were more Pugnacious....they made things happen. Ollie is more talented than them, IMV, but lacks that bit of belligerence to add to his skill set, which would increase his effectiveness

Some will say, he's not a No 9. I can understand that claim, but he does need to do more to force errors from his opponent....just waiting for the "Roy off the Rovers " pass will not suffice.

Good forwards, work there centre backs. Ollie does sometimes, but other times he don't.

PS Richard and Gareth on the "Villa Park Podcast" did a good analyse of Sundays Game....worth checking out.

 

Edited January 17 by TRO