alex7783 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 14 minutes ago, duke313 said: Genuine question. How is Newcastle potentially buying Saudi League players any different that RB Leipzig buying Salzburg players, or Watford buying Udinese players? Is it just because they’re competing near the top of the PL? If they were in the Championship, would anyone care? Because Salzburg and Udinese have to comply with FFP so can’t buy players for £millons and then loan to RB leipzig or Watford and just keep booking losses 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 It completely baffles me that supposed villa fans don't see why this is yet another roadblock and massive problem for villa. It gives the likes of Newcastle, Man City, Chelsea carte blance to spend and do whatever they want by using Saudi teams as a vehicle to do so. People are fascinating on Neves, he's just the start. When they all go mental in Jan with signings and we get out competed, will these people then realise that this news is yet another glass ceiling put in place we can't get through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted November 21, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted November 21, 2023 22 minutes ago, Chindie said: Saudi essentially runs it's own league and officially owns 4 clubs in that league explicitly, with essentially limitless pockets and no need to consider money. But crucially, they don't own Newcastle. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Zatman said: Neves moved before all of them players and in Barnes/Livramento case was a month between transfers His 1 assist and no goals in 15 games in the Saudi league will be terrifying Premier League midfields. Henderson has 3 more assists than him You make me laugh So now neves is a poor player because he is playing in a league thats the equivalent of league teo To answer your other point, they probably prioritied the other positions ahead of cm as they signed tonali. Makes sense really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 I don’t understand why people are saying this has a massive impact for Man City. Are they about to loan players from Melbourne City? Newcastle are the main beneficiaries. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: You make me laugh So now neves is a poor player because he is playing in a league thats the equivalent of league teo To answer your other point, they probably prioritied the other positions ahead of cm as they signed tonali. Makes sense really He wouldnt get in our team and probably many other teams chasing Europe. He is only going to Newcastle because Tonali is suspended Yes he has struggled in a shit league so he has declined by the looks of it. When you play in a shit league and play poor then you are poor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 City seem to be using them as a feeder club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 For all the hate we give them in Man U, Liverpool, spurs and us etc there's a lot of football 'clout' there that are against... Half of these clubs are just shit eaters at the foot of the league or biased in some way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Farlz said: Gotta be honest, I dunno what the big fuss is all about. Yes this highly benefits Newcastle and they'll probably loan in a couple players and dodge around FFP and whatnot but the league has been **** for years and years this is nothing new. Oh no they might loan in Ruben Neves to cover the Tonali ban, can't say I'm particularly worried. The Premier League is in the gutter full stop. We're not squeaky clean obviously, we have our V Sports model but, correct me if I'm wrong, that seems more driven to snapping up young talent? Maybe I'm just naive to the whole thing and the state of it all has just numbed me to these things. I would more say developing young talent the goal seems to be about attracting more good young players and developing them more successfully overall and we have an opportunity to get the very best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanpablosaliceband Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 2 hours ago, oishiiniku_uk said: The difference here is that PIF owns the four richest teams in a league with no FFP constraints, a league which they also control. If Man Utd, for instance, also owned four teams in Serie A then everyone would be going crazy. Even owning two clubs in the same league shouldn't be allowed. The potential for collusion, cheating (both sporting and financial) is huge. All other PL clubs with networks are generally buying prospects to loan to lesser markets where there are financial constraints. None of them are having one of the clubs in their group buy a player for 50 million and then loaning them back to the PL club 6 months later. I don't get how people don't see how this could be used to distort the market. The only saving grace is that Newcastle can only loan 1 more player currently. Exactly. As things stand, the Saudis have the perfect template to essentially launder money into Newcastle from a sporting perspective. They have the critical mass and money within their own league to attract players there in the first place without FFP constraint, and can then loan said players around to their European partners as they please. One might say if you can’t beat them join them, but the Saudi league is a closed shop and there aren’t many other leagues, if any, outside FFP with the money and prestige to attract the players in the first place. I think the loophole will be closed or tightened at some point but Newcastle could make hay in the meantime. We might say “big deal” but most Villa fans would love the prospect of loaning a player like Neves for the rest of the season. It could make a huge difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 I suppose one of the positive things about this is that we can end that Forest love in that has been going on this board since promotion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyeddie Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 I wonder what percentage of his wages Newcastle will be paying. In theory they could loan him no fee and not pay any wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted November 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted November 21, 2023 one thing that we hope we will see is the PL being stricter on ratifying any potential deals from saudi clubs to english. as part of any tranfer, the PL need to basically sign off that the fee etc is realistic market value. hypothetically, if neves was loaned to newcastle with them paying none of his wages, the PL would be able to block that transfer as it's totally unrealistic. besides, i think the saudis are more interested in growing their league than newcastle. i think they're lower in their priorities now. what's the point in chucking a load of money at newcastle who might win the PL or CL one day (look at how long it for city to do both of those) when they could just keep loading their own league with quality players and boost the reputation and quality of their own league and totally dominate the asia competitions. they've got a world cup to prepare for, they aren't about to have their teams become feeder clubs to some rainy shithole in the north of england all talk around neves is that he's going nowhere as the saudis want him to stay put Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 3 hours ago, duke313 said: Genuine question. How is Newcastle potentially buying Saudi League players any different that RB Leipzig buying Salzburg players, or Watford buying Udinese players? Is it just because they’re competing near the top of the PL? If they were in the Championship, would anyone care? It's not about purchasing the prices are set by an independent regulator for that. It's about loaning to avoid ffp issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted November 22, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 22, 2023 4 hours ago, duke313 said: Genuine question. How is Newcastle potentially buying Saudi League players any different that RB Leipzig buying Salzburg players, or Watford buying Udinese players? Is it just because they’re competing near the top of the PL? If they were in the Championship, would anyone care? It's mostly different because the Saudi league is outside of the control of UEFA and therefore not subject to either domestic or UEFA FFP rule. So, for example when a player is signed by a club in the Red Bull family, the buying club still have to meet an FFP regulation - Salzburg can't spend £300m on Mbappe and then loan him to RB Leipzig because Salzburg would be outside of their FFP limits and would be punished. Additionally, there are rules within UEFA covering fair valuations and inter-club transfers that aren't covered outside of their jurisdiction. There's currently no reason why (if they were fit) Newcastle couldn't loan Neves, Neymar and Benzema for £1 a week each - there are no financial restrictions on the Saudi teams, so no responsibility for them to seek a fair valuation within the framework of European football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 7 hours ago, tomav84 said: one thing that we hope we will see is the PL being stricter on ratifying any potential deals from saudi clubs to english. as part of any tranfer, the PL need to basically sign off that the fee etc is realistic market value. hypothetically, if neves was loaned to newcastle with them paying none of his wages, the PL would be able to block that transfer as it's totally unrealistic. I highly doubt they could. Maybe on an unrealistic transfer fee, but they won’t have any control on a loan. If it happened, they’d be legally challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: It's mostly different because the Saudi league is outside of the control of UEFA and therefore not subject to either domestic or UEFA FFP rule. So, for example when a player is signed by a club in the Red Bull family, the buying club still have to meet an FFP regulation - Salzburg can't spend £300m on Mbappe and then loan him to RB Leipzig because Salzburg would be outside of their FFP limits and would be punished. Additionally, there are rules within UEFA covering fair valuations and inter-club transfers that aren't covered outside of their jurisdiction. There's currently no reason why (if they were fit) Newcastle couldn't loan Neves, Neymar and Benzema for £1 a week each - there are no financial restrictions on the Saudi teams, so no responsibility for them to seek a fair valuation within the framework of European football. The last part is not possible as you can only register 2 loan players at a time and they have only one free loan spot available because of FFP Neves and Neymar also play for the same club so would also not be possible Edited November 22, 2023 by Zatman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 Guess we just need to work the system ourselves now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 10 hours ago, Zatman said: He wouldnt get in our team and probably many other teams chasing Europe. He is only going to Newcastle because Tonali is suspended Yes he has struggled in a shit league so he has declined by the looks of it. When you play in a shit league and play poor then you are poor When you have shit players around you it can also make difference. I think he flourishes in a team like newcastle. They ahve good players there and a strong team ethic. Guess we will soon see as its 100% gonna happen now. Look back at the wolves thread or saudi thread everyone called it that neves would be there before the start of next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 22, 2023 Share Posted November 22, 2023 24 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: When you have shit players around you it can also make difference. I think he flourishes in a team like newcastle. They ahve good players there and a strong team ethic. Guess we will soon see as its 100% gonna happen now. Look back at the wolves thread or saudi thread everyone called it that neves would be there before the start of next season Athletic have said its not happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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