Ratings & Reactions: Legia Warszawa v Villa

[meregreen]

1 hour ago, Django_Zooms said:

Keep Calm And Look At Brighton's Result At Home

Don’t see the point of that. You don’t analyse a teams failings by pointing at another teams failings. I’ve no doubt Unai will be looking closely at the performance, and identifying where we need to improve. Doubt very much he will shrug his shoulders and draw comfort in Brightons performance. Face it, we were dreadful.

[TRO]

55 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

Before the match I thought we should have gone full-strength, we could have rested players later and from a stronger position.

The match resembled a cross between basketball and rugby, they roughed us up tonight. Villa wilted....

Kamara and Tielemans are Big culprits tonight, didn't protect the defence. I guess that's why Tielemans isn't starting, he looked slow. Kamara is just out of form or mentally somewhere else?

Zaniolo my MOTM, Duràn looked good too.

 

even If we had of gone full strength, with that attitude, it would'nt have made much difference.....We have seen too many of these performances, Leicester, Stevenage, Newcastle, Liverpool.....where has the attitude gone, from the Newcastle Home game, or the Man U home game last season.....where intensity and urgency was in full view.

These insipid, passive  displays are becoming too frequent, imo.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

Hibs was no preparation for tonight. Defence is a worry away from home no matter who is playing.  Perhaps a bit of hubris for all those who think we should be the favorites for a competition when we haven't played in Europe for a generation. 

If you want to be positive it could be a well-deserved kick up the arse for the remaining five games. Or this is going to be a lot tougher than some people had thought unless we are all in every game with our first XI.

Unless we can find some intensity and urgency for somewhere, these are going to be regular conversations.

[fightoffyour]

2 hours ago, dublinvilla2014 said:

Looked like they thought they just needed to show up to win very poor performance a lot of back up players nowhere near the level required 

We did only need to show up to win! Legia are absolute shite. We didn’t turn up. Crap.

[smg]

4 hours ago, Strog said:

We’re not winning this unfortunately

After one game?  Seriously 

[fightoffyour]

1 hour ago, Dillon66 said:

I think we have to face up to the fact that our summer recruitment, with the exception of Diaby, may not have been the stellar window that some people claimed.

Take a few select personnel out and we're as weak as piss. This sitting back and inviting players on, so we can pass round or through them wil only work with quick movement and snap in the passes. We're slow, ponderous and seem to escape any kind of opposition press, more by luck than judgement or skill.

We never look after the ball after we've recycled possession and we seem to make the same mistakes with alarming regularity. We seem to be the archetypal flat track bullies against ĺesser sides who display little or no attacking ambition.

Run at us, press hard and whip crosses in and our defence looks like it consists of players who've never met before.

Much to do Emery.....and fast.

Our play against the press is fine. Probably is the opposition have no reason to press if they’re winning after 2 ducking minutes.

[fightoffyour]

3 minutes ago, smg said:

After one game?  Seriously 

Not wrong. We’re not winning this match against Legia away.

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

We did only need to show up to win! Legia are absolute shite. We didn’t turn up. Crap.

so are Stevenage and Leicester who got relegated.....these lesser teams, who want to have a go, find an easy passage in to our Psyche.

The pre-requisite to ANY level of football is, you have to win the physical battle, before you engage in the pretty patterns.....we don't even engage, the standing off is criminal.

Is it any wonder, opponents grow in to the game, and their belief is enhanced...we are simply passive pussies.

We rarely force errors, we just rely on slip ups and poor passes to intercept....when do we actually win the ball, in the true sense?

[fightoffyour]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

so are Stevenage and Leicester who got relegated.....these lesser teams, who want to have a go, find an easy passage in to our Psyche.

The pre-requisite to ANY level of football is, you have to win the physical battle, before you engage in the pretty patterns.....we don't even engage, the standing off is criminal.

Is it any wonder, opponents grow in to the game, and their belief is enhanced...we are simply passive pussies.

We rarely force errors, we just rely on slip ups and poor passes to intercept....when do we actually win the ball, in the true sense?

I agree, which is weird cause I never agreed with during the Bruce era. I need. Kebab and lie down.

[abdulaziz1]

My worry isn’t the team selection (we should rotate), but our tactics and form away from home. Something has to chance. We need to play faster and get a bit deeper, we can’t just do this offside trap all the time. 
To be honest we’ve done perfectly with Young, Mings and Moreno, only Konsa is playing right now. Cash always been a disaster going to happen with this tactic. At home it’s still working, but away from home the decline began even before last season ended. Actually before that we were more cautious.

Again this could be in our favor, it will get our heads down and try to push, not sure which effect it will have against Chelsea but a tough tough away game coming up. Hopefully would make us respect Everton even more, so atleast we have time to make up for our game (unlike FA cup game last season).

If we won both games then it was a worthy lesson. 
I think Brighton lost as well, Alkamar lost aswell from a 3-0 lead which is in our favor. 
 

As long as we’re in the right direction it’s good to have these lessons on things we can get back to and fix rather than in a knockout or so. Same goes in the league, losing away to a top 6 much better than losing at home against a lesser team. We won’t win all so atleast we get benefited from some losses.

[TRO]

16 hours ago, allani said:

Too many fans and too many players believing that we just had to turn up to win this competition.  All the talk of playing our U23s to gain experience because they'd be too good for teams that regularly compete for honours in their own leagues.  Another example of the English arrogance that annoys the rest of Europe and the world so much.  Hopefully this is the wake up call that we all needed.  If we want to get into the latter stages of this competition we first have to go out and play well in each game.  I thought that after Hibs, Emery at least was taking this seriously and treating the competition and our opponents with respect.  He was let down by several players today but maybe he's also learned a lesson - our back-up players are OK if there is just one or two coming in - but our "B" team is still a long way distant from our "A" team.

This just smacks of pretty much every season we've qualified for Europe since 1990.  Spend so much time and effort getting ourselves into the competition and then we are there we treat it as a Sunday League tournament and get knocked out because we just expect to turn up and win.

Hopefully this cuts out all the bull**** about us winning the competition and we get back to just focussing on the next match and trying to win that game.

I don't think we are arrogant, we just don't appreciate the art of defending....This team in its current guise, can't defend.....and my worry is, I don't see it changing any time soon.

many only focus on the offensive work we do.....without the ball, we are not very good.

We are not only shipping goals for fun, they are shockingly basic errors.... you and me, would score some of them goals against us.

Pre season was a wake up call and we ignored it as well...."as its just pre season"......These breaches will bring us down, and what bit of confidence we still have, will evaporate.

He has to stop the Haemoragging of conceded goals.

Anyone analysing the make up of these conceded goals, would be rocked by the sheer simplicity, and ease with which they are executed......We need a world class forward line, to negate this.

Tyrone and Carlos are dedicated defenders......we need a few more in the squad......not offensive minded players, trying to defend.

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by TRO

[striker]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't think we are arrogant, we just don't appreciate the art of defending....This team in its current guise, can't defend.....and my worry is, I don't see it changing any time soon.

many only focus on the offensive work we do.....without the ball, we are not very good.

We are not only shipping goals for fun, they are shockingly basic errors....me and you, would score some of them.

Pre season was a wake up call and we ignored it as well...."as its just pre season"......These breaches will bring us down, and what bit of confidence we still have will evaporate.

He has to stop the Haemoragging of conceded goals.

Anyone analysing the make up of these conceded goals, would be rocked by the sheer simplicity, and ease with which they are executed......We need a world class forward line, to negate this.

Tyrone and Carlos are dedicated defenders......we need a few more in the squad......not offensive minded players, trying to defend.

 

High back line is the problem Tro. Like many others, I stated in pre-season it would bite Villa in the arse and it has. 

[Marka Ragnos]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

even If we had of gone full strength, with that attitude, it would'nt have made much difference.....We have seen too many of these performances, Leicester, Stevenage, Newcastle, Liverpool.....where has the attitude gone, from the Newcastle Home game, or the Man U home game last season.....where intensity and urgency was in full view.

These insipid, passive  displays are becoming too frequent, imo.

That's an essential and excellent question, Mr. @TRO. I will try my best to answer, humbly, and in no particular order:

• It may not be a complicated problem. It may be something as simple as hubris. It happens to the best clubs. Intensity and urgency grow out of desperation. We so didn't have that today. Legia did. Of course they did. They were playing "giants." Giants in our own minds, and in theirs, it turns out.
• Putting several new players together in a new set-up on a squad playing an unfamiliar opposition far away from home. A bridge too far. Good idea, wrong situation. It takes time for an XI to gel and get that hunger where they look to one another as players and know they share a common purpose. Our players last year had been through a rough time before they started to "click." Rough patches can bring clubs together in terms of esprit de corps.
• In short, the players and perhaps even the manager started to believe the H-Y-P-E. This group of players -- looking at the whole club now -- have been under tremendous pressure to move the needle of mediocrity to European excellence. So much so, it's seemed almost inevitable. That's bad. I think hype can work sometimes, but it can backfire, too. When players start relying on all the hype, the urgency fades, because the hype itself becomes its own reward. Why should they try when they're already considered amazing? But there's a positive side to that ...
• Steve Jobs said, "Stay hungry, stay foolish." Well, today's "foolishness," I think, may serve as a healthy corrective and course-centring for a whole group of players with a lot of new faces and languages and styles of play to learn. I think the foolishness is going to stir up that deeper hunger again. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Reivax_Villa said:

I will say that..

As an outfit we are figuring our this European football stuff out..

This is our first proper European football match in terms of flying to another country and experiencing a different atmosphere..

Maybe the Hibernian draw was a very familiar atmosphere for the players..

We are not a fully fledge European level team yet..

Our squad need to get familiar with the playing on a Sunday and then flying out on a Thursday and then playing on a Sunday again and remain competetive..

This is a marathon not a race and it is imperetive that we get European football again next season so that our players improve at that level..

was we figuring out Football League one, when we went out the cup to Stevenage? Was we figuring out how to play relegated teams, when Leicester turned us over?.....there are no excuses.

Any discerning football fan, will know what was not right tonight, with us.....and any discerning Villa Fan will know, its not the first time......even the commentator said (after a Legia tackle on a villa player)......... can't we do that? just about summed it up for me.

Its nothing to do with acclimatising to European football, its about the art of basic defending and nullifying the threat and ascendency of opponents, its about engaging and winning the initiative to control the game.....we have seen similar elements of this, this season in the Premier League, particularly away from home...sloppy, insipid, turgid play....it has to change.

 

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, striker said:

High back line is the problem Tro. Like many others, I stated in pre-season it would bite Villa in the arse and it has. 

The high back line is a strategy, adopted by some teams in football, but you have to have the players, with the ability, discipline and intelligence to play it.

Can our players, play it?

The question is...is it causing us more harm than good ?

I'll leave it to the man, who gets paid big bucks to figure it out.

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

That's an essential and excellent question, Mr. @TRO. I will try my best to answer, humbly, and in no particular order:

• It may not be a complicated problem. It may be something as simple as hubris. It happens to the best clubs. Intensity and urgency grow out of desperation. We so didn't have that today. Legia did. Of course they did. They were playing "giants." Giants in our own minds, and in theirs, it turns out.
• Putting several new players together in a new set-up on a squad playing an unfamiliar opposition far away from home. A bridge too far. Good idea, wrong situation. It takes time for an XI to gel and get that hunger where they look to one another as players and know they share a common purpose. Our players last year had been through a rough time before they started to "click." Rough patches can bring clubs together in terms of esprit de corps.
• In short, the players and perhaps even the manager started to believe the H-Y-P-E. This group of players -- looking at the whole club now -- have been under tremendous pressure to move the needle of mediocrity to European excellence. So much so, it's seemed almost inevitable. That's bad. I think hype can work sometimes, but it can backfire, too. When players start relying on all the hype, the urgency fades, because the hype itself becomes its own reward. Why should they try when they're already considered amazing? But there's a positive side to that ...
• Steve Jobs said, "Stay hungry, stay foolish." Well, today's "foolishness," I think, may serve as a healthy corrective and course-centring for a whole group of players with a lot of new faces and languages and styles of play to learn. I think the foolishness is going to stir up that deeper hunger again. 

You could be right, I can only put forward, my suspicions, but thats all they are.

My only doubt about your theory is.....How do the top teams stay hungry, and don't allow lesser teams like us to, out fight them?......you make a feasible case for the lesser teams against us, but we don't benefit from that theory, when we are playing arguably better teams than us, and we are one of those lesser teams.

It can't be heads you lose, tails you lose.

I think we can be a good side with the ball.....without the ball, perhaps requires a few different skills, and I don't think we are as good or in fact we have sufficient of those skills in our armoury.... we are not particulalry proficient at taking the ball off opponents, in an ascertive manner.

Edited September 22, 2023 by TRO

[KentVillan]

53 minutes ago, TRO said:

The high back line is a strategy, adopted by some teams in football, but you have to have the players, with the ability, discipline and intelligence to play it.

Can our players, play it?

The question is...is it causing us more harm than good ?

I'll leave it to the man, who gets paid big bucks to figure it out.

This is the issue. The high back line works brilliantly when all 11 men are playing well and working together.

The problem is a few injuries or rotations and everything falls apart.

I don’t know what the answer is. We could try parking the bus, but I think some of these players would make that look poor too.

[maqroll]

Just finished watching it. Absolutely flaccid performance. We gifted them their first two goals. We were out of rhythm. Leggy, sloppy and unfocused. Would much rather have had Ashley Young starting at RB than Chambers, who we need to replace in January. If Tielemanns was auditioning for the start on Sunday vs Chelsea, he failed. Not sure where Digne's head was on their first goal, but I'd have been tempted to sub him off right then and there if I were Emery. That second half leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

Credit Legia, they played like they thought they could win, and I was impressed with them. They were tidy and well drilled and took their chances well, even though two of them were on a silver platter.

Credit their fans who never stopped singing and never sat down. 

This will be another reality check for Villa, and Emery, but nothing to worry about.... yet. We can't continue to underestimate our opposition.

Duran MOTM, his goal was more difficult than it initially looked, and he should have been awarded a penalty after his excellent turn in the box. The defender literally pulled him down to the ground and nothing was called. Ollie had one or two opportunities to test their keeper but couldn't make it happen. Ice cold Ollie again. And Duran up to 4 goals. I expect Ollie to start on Sunday but if he remains cold, I wonder if Emery opts to start Duran at some point.

Anyway, Legia getting the W is probably the right result on the whole. They wanted it more and deserved the result.

A win against Chelsea will make up for this sad foray back onto the continent.

[Delphinho123]

We have issues at the back. I hope he can fix it. Every time a ball comes into the box we look hopeless. 

It’s already looking like we need to score 2/3 to win each game. We won’t get very far this season if that continues.

Up the Emery. 

[danceoftheshamen]

Sadly losing Mings, along with AY lest we forget... and of course the continued issues with Carlos, is threatening to derail our season.

 I do not know what the answer is as for me we do not have enough defensively.