Moussa Diaby

[MrBlack]

Just now, Keyblade said:

We are trying to take Leverkusen's best player for the second time in 3 years. A team that has been playing regular European football. We are able to do this despite only now celebrating our first top half finish since Obama's first term in office. Now we (supposedly) face competition from a Saudi club, and they're the ones ruining football? 

Us signing (or not) Diaby from Leverkusen is hardly ruining football. We'd probably happily sell them they're former best player back if they wanted to offer us less than we paid for him. 

Saudi on the other hand are definitely enabling certain clubs to circumvent FFP regulations, but seemingly not us. (So far...)

FFP is arguably the cause of the problem there, although now that states own Newcastle and Man City FFP is somewhat preventing an ever worse situation.

[VillaChris]

3 hours ago, Chindie said:

The second collusion between Newcastle and the openly Saudi clubs happens, I will be done. The game'll be done.

It's going to happen very soon. Newcastle is easy passage for someone like Ruben Neves to come back to premier league now after year or two in Saudi Arabia (the season before 2026 World cup for example) and Diaby could easily be a pawn in this aswell.

That said it's not like this is some bizarre and never before attempted model.

Watford have been moving players on to Udinese for nearly a decade now and getting prices they know other clubs wouldn't be paying. Man. City also signed mid 20s Aaron Mooy for free from the Melbourne club they own and then made a very nice profit on him when selling to Huddersfield.

Saudi's studied all this and now they'll be turbocharging it to their advantage.

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

No, a state wouldn't have that kind of knowledge, that's what I mean, you would need some proper football heads in charge of it all to make that a thing, emenalo started today, if he'd been there a year and put a proper team in place then maybe

And again they're linked to 1 player that we're also linked to, they weren't linked to tielemans or torres, they weren't linked to maddison when spurs bought him, they weren't linked to the couple of players Brighton bought, they weren't linked to the players Liverpool bought, man utd bought, arsenal bought... So it's only villa they've identified as a threat? And it's only Diaby?

 

I think Arsenal, Man U and Liverpool are established Top teams, with years of consistent results behind them.....I think they are quite difficult to derail.

Aston Villa,  Brighton and a slightly lesser degree, Brentford....are emerging projects, who are a clear and present danger to the Elite....Newcastle have just gate crashed that Elite, ( well done to them) and are intent on establishing themselves there....they don't want teams with similar ideas, like us.

After, the recruitment of a top class manager and a sought after DOF, not to mention the reputable coaching staff, we have just signed 2 champions league classed players for prudent purchasing sums......We are a danger, alright.

I am not saying with any evidence, or any deep rooted thinking, that my suspicions ( and thats all they are) have legs......but I am thinking resourceful folk with money to burn, can be creative in their pursuit, of scuppering our plans.

You don't buy it?.....I hope you are right.....When Diaby arrives, I will applaud you.

Edited July 18, 2023 by TRO

[Keyblade]

5 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

Us signing (or not) Diaby from Leverkusen is hardly ruining football. We'd probably happily sell them they're former best player back if they wanted to offer us less than we paid for him. 

Saudi on the other hand are definitely enabling certain clubs to circumvent FFP regulations, but seemingly not us. (So far...)

FFP is arguably the cause of the problem there, although now that states own Newcastle and Man City FFP is somewhat preventing an ever worse situation.

I agree, but in this case there's no circumventing of FFP involved apart from weird conspiracy theories. It's simply that a Saudi club is interested in buying the same player we're after (reportedly). 

I don't even think the interest is real, sounds like an agent or Leverkusen trying to get us to pay more. I expect he'll be a Villa player early next week to be honest.

[alreadyexists]

13 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

We are trying to take Leverkusen's best player for the second time in 3 years. A team that has been playing regular European football. We are able to do this despite only now celebrating our first top half finish since Obama's first term in office. Now we (supposedly) face competition from a Saudi club, and they're the ones ruining football? 

… are we the baddies?

[MrBlack]

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I agree, but in this case there's no circumventing of FFP involved apart from weird conspiracy theories. It's simply that a Saudi club is interested in buying the same player we're after (reportedly). 

I don't even think the interest is real, sounds like an agent or Leverkusen trying to get us to pay more. I expect he'll be a Villa player early next week to be honest.

Yeah, I think Diaby is ours of we will pay what Leverkusen want (I'm not sure Saudi bidding whether real or not impacts this as he wants to come to us seemingly).

More generally speaking I'm concerned with how they're acting and how much they're willing to pay the likes of Henderson. It doesn't strike me as though they just want to have a decent league for their country to watch and be proud of.

[MrBlack]

2 minutes ago, alreadyexists said:

… are we the baddies?

We are the Villans of course.

[El-Reacho]

6 minutes ago, alreadyexists said:

… are we the baddies?

Edit  - trying and failing to embed that Webb and Mitchell Nazi sketch....

Edited July 18, 2023 by El-Reacho

[TRO]

1 minute ago, MrBlack said:

Yeah, I think Diaby is ours of we will pay what Leverkusen want (I'm not sure Saudi bidding whether real or not impacts this as he wants to come to us seemingly).

More generally speaking I'm concerned with how they're acting and how much they're willing to pay the likes of Henderson. It doesn't strike me as though they just want to have a decent league for their country to watch and be proud of.

Not trying to be contentious, and divided speculation on suspicions aside......what makes you think this, just asking?

[alreadyexists]

13 minutes ago, El-Reacho said:

Edit  - trying and failing to embed that Webb and Mitchell Nazi sketch....

I tried too! So I gave up and just wrote it, glad you got the reference  

[Mark Albrighton]

35 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

We are trying to take Leverkusen's best player for the second time in 3 years. A team that has been playing regular European football. We are able to do this despite only now celebrating our first top half finish since Obama's first term in office. Now we (supposedly) face competition from a Saudi club, and they're the ones ruining football? 

Difference is that Aston Villa (claret & blue specs off) are a significant and historic football club. And they play in a league with other significant and historic football clubs in a league that has always been significant within the game.

You can play in front of huge crowds. You can possibly compete in the FA cup. 

Which are the historic Saudi clubs? What’s the tradition of the domestic cup over there? How competitive is it? Big crowds over there?

The Premier League and the clubs have too much pull over other leagues like Serie A and the like. But at least in addition to being able to offer more money, the English games offers something in the way of football heritage.

A player isn’t just joining Bournemouth instead of AC Milan purely because of money, he also gets to test himself against Liverpool and Man Utd. Clubs I dare say he, his dad and his grandad would be able to offer some reminiscences about. I’m not sure Al Hilal are able to provoke a similar reaction.

For the record I’m not saying anything is wrong or ruining football or whatever. I’m merely stating that the “the Saudi’s are just doing what the Premier League/English league did” (which I’ve seen once or twice) isn’t entirely accurate. The English game could offer a century of football culture in addition to a lot of money. 

[villan95]

27 minutes ago, alreadyexists said:

… are we the baddies?

 

[maqroll]

1 hour ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Which means what, exactly?

Nothing other than what I wrote. We hadn't heard of any interest in Diaby until right after Monchi arrived in B6.

[MrBlack]

25 minutes ago, TRO said:

Not trying to be contentious, and divided speculation on suspicions aside......what makes you think this, just asking?

Just a feeling. Like the Pau news that floated around before the signing, there feels like there is genuine truth behind our interest in him and his in us. 

Which just means it's about agreeing with Leverkusen (in my opinion).

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, fightoffyour said:

While there are certainly legitimate claims that the Premier League has ruined / is ruining the sport, the Saudi League is doing so in a completely different way.

And I'm not just saying that as a fan of a PL team - the parallels with a richer league paying bigger fees and salaries than anyone else can are there for sure, regardless of any arguments about that being justified in England due to history, attendances, ingrained football culture.

That's not the main problem with the Saudi league though; let them go and sign some expensive players all they want. The problem is, which wasn't the case with the PL, that this league has the freedom, the wealth, and the will to influence other leagues and benefit certain teams within those league in a way that circumvents the current rules of said leagues and provides unfair advantage.

Yeah, I agree that’s the issue with regards to FFP and multiclub ownership.

But dem was saying they’re “ruining football”. 

[Keyblade]

3 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

Difference is that Aston Villa (claret & blue specs off) are a significant and historic football club. And they play in a league with other significant and historic football clubs in a league that has always been significant within the game.

You can play in front of huge crowds. You can possibly compete in the FA cup. 

Which are the historic Saudi clubs? What’s the tradition of the domestic cup over there? How competitive is it? Big crowds over there?

The Premier League and the clubs have too much pull over other leagues like Serie A and the like. But at least in addition to being able to offer more money, the English games offers something in the way of football heritage.

A player isn’t just joining Bournemouth instead of AC Milan purely because of money, he also gets to test himself against Liverpool and Man Utd. Clubs I dare say he, his dad and his grandad would be able to offer some reminiscences about. I’m not sure Al Hilal are able to provoke a similar reaction.

For the record I’m not saying anything is wrong or ruining football or whatever. I’m merely stating that the “the Saudi’s are just doing what the Premier League/English league did” (which I’ve seen once or twice) isn’t entirely accurate. The English game could offer a century of football culture in addition to a lot of money. 

I mean, for one, I don't think Moussa Diaby or any other player who joins us or other PL clubs cares so much about football tradition over a.) money b.) prestige of playing in the most watched league, in the CL etc. If Saudi Arabia or any other league ends up usurping the PL on points A and/or B (currently have A, and are working towards B), then that's where players will go. Don't even think tradition/heritage will factor into it one bit. Just like I don't think Pau Torres or Boubacar Kamar cared one bit about William McGregor or gas lamps or what have you, when they joined. Or that Messi and Neymar were relishing the thought of playing against Nantes and Lyon when they joined PSG.

But on the point of heritage, even if we accept for the sake of argument that Saudi Arabia has none, I don't see the issue in them cultivating it? Like, why does that make us mad? It takes money and lots of it to accomplish, and that's one thing they do not lack. Heritage doesn't count for anything anymore (if it ever did) because we made it so that whoever has the most money gets the best players.

But believe it or not, football is very big in that part of the world and the Saudis have always been at the forefront even before all of this. They've been pouring money into this sport for a long time, but now that they're doing it at a level that threatens us, it becomes a problem. Now that they're after our players (both current and prospective), it's apparently ruining football. I know that's not what you're saying, but that's the sentiment I'm seeing in this thread and others. 

[HolteExile]

42 minutes ago, villan95 said:

Apparently West Brom are actually owned by the Chinese government but they are no longer interested in investing in football

That's the Chinese lads getting their own back on John Trewick's 'seen one wall' line. 

When you've owned one shite football club, you've owned them all. 

[beachboys1]

• maybe saudis /newcastle are dragging this out to stop us doing any other buisness

[Mark Albrighton]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

I mean, for one, I don't think Moussa Diaby or any other player who joins us or other PL clubs cares so much about football tradition over a.) money b.) prestige of playing in the most watched league, in the CL etc. If Saudi Arabia or any other league ends up usurping the PL on points A and/or B (currently have A, and are working towards B), then that's where players will go. Don't even think tradition/heritage will factor into it one bit. Just like I don't think Pau Torres or Boubacar Kamar cared one bit about William McGregor or gas lamps or what have you, when they joined. Or that Messi and Neymar were relishing the thought of playing against Nantes and Lyon when they joined PSG.

But on the point of heritage, even if we accept for the sake of argument that Saudi Arabia has none, I don't see the issue in them cultivating it? Like, why does that make us mad? It takes money and lots of it to accomplish, and that's one thing they do not lack. Heritage doesn't count for anything anymore (if it ever did) because we made it so that whoever has the most money gets the best players.

But believe it or not, football is very big in that part of the world and the Saudis have always been at the forefront even before all of this. They've been pouring money into this sport for a long time, but now that they're doing it at a level that threatens us, it becomes a problem. Now that they're after our players (both current and prospective), it's apparently ruining football. I know that's not what you're saying, but that's the sentiment I'm seeing in this thread and others. 

No problem with a country trying to cultivate football there. It has to start somewhere.

I didn’t say anything about William McGregor or gas lamps. I suggested that a player may want to play in the premier league for a smaller club to compete against the bigger sides. Play on a bigger stage. And potentially play for one of those bigger, grander sides.

So that’s not really Messi joining PSG to face Nantes. It’s more a player joining Bournemouth (or Nantes) to test themselves against Man Utd (or PSG).

It doesn’t make me mad. My point is I don’t agree that the premier league was built on money alone and as such it’s not complete accurate to say the Saudi league is the same thing. I think there’s an existing attraction to playing in the same division as the likes of Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal, that isn’t there in Saudi Arabia. 

[PaulMcGrath_5]

5 minutes ago, beachboys1 said:

• maybe saudis /newcastle are dragging this out to stop us doing any other buisness

Yeah…

 

No.