Woody1000 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 I understand that Ollie doesn’t score every chance he gets, but what I don’t understand is this perception that he is wasteful. ALL strikers miss chances, Even the monster that is Erling Haaland went on a run of one goal in 7 games towards the end of the season. If he stays fit, and plays regularly, you can quote me now - Ollie bags 20 goals next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 The forwards that immediately are an upgrade on Ollie would probably not come to us. Sign someone to compete with him and let them rotate or play together sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, nick76 said: 1) You’re assuming that, it may not be the case 2) Based ALSO on the question it would assume we would be buying somebody better or better suited to Emery’s system and style, otherwise why would we do it. If that’s the case then if Ollie left then so be it. If we are buying a new main striker the assumption has to be he’s better than Ollie. We can debate if there is somebody, can we afford and all that separately but in answer to the question posed if we are buying another striker to be the main striker next season either a) Ollie wants to leave and already told us b) we have a bid we can’t refuse c) we are able to get another striker whose better for Emery’s system and style d) we can play Ollie off the new main striker or rotation. I think it’s a win win apart from a) which I don’t think is the case because b), c) and d) are all positives. It's 100% the case, Nick. You can't honestly tell me that Watkins would be happy to be sitting on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 I still wouldn't be overly surprised if we signed another striker similar to Ollie but who is more comfortable on the right. Someone who can play through the centre - but also happy to drift deep or wide to find space. Ollie isn't a "lead the line" type striker - his best spell this season came when he was running onto balls behind the defence. Then we could absolutely play both (Bailey and Buendia have both tended to be much narrower than typical wide forwards) as they'd both be able to play the "9" role on more of an Inside Forward role at times. Gives us coverage if either gets injured (as we'd have two players who could play as a CF), gives us more of a goal threat across the front line and would give Ollie a bit more space to thrive in as defenders would have 2 players to worry about rather than 1, allows Ollie to drift when he wants but also attack from a more central position too. Add another IF type player and you'd have three players who could pretty much play in any of the three forward roles / interchange during the game. Plenty of goal threat and creativity, fits in with the pressing style, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 31 minutes ago, lexicon said: If he's not the main striker, he's not sticking around. It absolutely is the question. If he isn't prepared to play the role that Emery wants him to play then we would be better off saying goodbye. If Emery wants him to play more of a left sided, inside forward then that is the role that Ollie HAS to play. If he says "no I am only going to play as a CF" then quite frankly that should be an argument that he loses every single day of the week. Emery is THE most important cog in the wheel - far more so than any player. Obviously there is nothing so far to suggest that Emery won't play Ollie as a CF - but IF we sign another CF (which has been alluded to) then it is 100% up to Ollie to fit in with whatever Emery has planned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Just now, lexicon said: It's 100% the case, Nick. You can't honestly tell me that Watkins would be happy to be sitting on the bench. Again, he may not be sitting on bench as I said in my previous post. If we buy somebody better or fits Emery’s system better then he’d have to deal with it wouldn’t he unless we got a bid that we accepted. Both of these reasons is why it’s far from 100% that he would be off. Emery has said every position is upgradeable, if there is a right player out that we could get and Emery wants then I would do it. The problem is, is there such a player. Ollie is a great player but I think he has many flaws which will hinder us. I don’t think replacing him is a priority but I certainly think striker competition is a priority. Given Emery’s comments in January and just a month or so ago, he agrees that we need another striker (not forward or wide forward he said striker) to be competitive with Ollie. I think Ollie will be our main CF next season but if we did get a chance to upgrade I certainly would and no I don’t know who that would be and fortunately not my job. We do at least need an alternative whatever the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Unai's next challenge is to get Watkins performing across a whole season, I see no need to change to a different striker when we need wide forwards first as priority. Obviously he has a price and if someone meets it I think we could sell but I'm not sure anyone will offer that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbcuk Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Voted new, as if we want to get to the next level Watkins isn’t that striker, as can’t see him going on a scoring run like he did again, misses far to many one on one chances for me 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: Again, he may not be sitting on bench as I said in my previous post. If we buy somebody better or fits Emery’s system better then he’d have to deal with it wouldn’t he unless we got a bid that we accepted. Both of these reasons is why it’s far from 100% that he would be off. Emery has said every position is upgradeable, if there is a right player out that we could get and Emery wants then I would do it. The problem is, is there such a player. Ollie is a great player but I think he has many flaws which will hinder us. I don’t think replacing him is a priority but I certainly think striker competition is a priority. Given Emery’s comments in January and just a month or so ago, he agrees that we need another striker (not forward or wide forward he said striker) to be competitive with Ollie. I think Ollie will be our main CF next season but if we did get a chance to upgrade I certainly would and no I don’t know who that would be and fortunately not my job. We do at least need an alternative whatever the case. Goal scoring is THE main priority this summer. As far as I am concerned that means adding 2 more forwards who can take some of the goal scoring burden off Ollie (which may actually result in him scoring more goals). CF / striker are I think slight misnomers - I see it much more as a "front 3" who spearhead our attack but are also the first line of the defence. I definitely see Ollie as playing a major role in that front 3. So signing new forwards wouldn't automatically mean that Ollie would be dropped to the bench - I also think it would be great if the 3 were all scoring 15 goals rather than one scoring 20 and the other two getting 10 each (even if the total scored between them was the same). So maybe we don't have a "main" CF? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 10, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 10, 2023 4 hours ago, GlobalVillan said: Ollie is a good player for a a club outside the top 6. Had a purple patch which helped us get into Europe and finish with a respectable 15 goals. To get into the top 6 and stay there however, we need a more clinical striker. He only scored more than 1 goal in a game once last season for example. We also need a squad so I wouldn't be selling him for the kind of money we would be offered. Ollie is not just about the goals though. He's so athletic and fit. As shown in that video when (Bailey?) arrived last year and the players bid a beep test. Ollie was still going MILES after other players had given up. In a game this translates to relentless pressing and running that other players don't offer you. He's crucial to how we play in other ways than just goals. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 (edited) I think it would take a big bid for us to consider selling him, unless he makes it clear that he has no intention of signing another contract or UE sees the amount bid as sufficient to get the type of player in that he wants for his system, by adding say £20m - £30m to that fee received. I also cannot see anyone paying us £50m+ for him. I'm all for keeping him and spending big on a wide forward, but to an extent the ball is in his court and in UE's. In other words: Edited June 10, 2023 by John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, sidcow said: Ollie is not just about the goals though. He's so athletic and fit. As shown in that video when (Bailey?) arrived last year and the players bid a beep test. Ollie was still going MILES after other players had given up. In a game this translates to relentless pressing and running that other players don't offer you. He's crucial to how we play in other ways than just goals. I agree, and we won't be selling him anytime soon. But we need an upgrade to move to the next level. Or rather a more natural finisher in the squad. Easier said than done tho of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 10, 2023 Author Share Posted June 10, 2023 Would we be happy with this sort of set up then, in attack? Watkins Kang-in Williams Maybe we change to a front three or have a different player (more of a goal scorer) close to Watkins and one of the wide players back in midfield? I just don’t think that’s strong or dangerous enough, I expect more/better from the likes of Buendia next season too (possibly Bailey) but what we need are proper upgrades imo rather than just potential or alternatives… we need to be more potent in attack - get more goals, be more clinical. A player like Felix (as ambitious, expensive and difficult it would be) would seem to be more of an actual enhancement or upgrade… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Watkins Think the CF market is in the gutter, lots of teams want one but there's hardly any kicking about Far easier to upgrade Buendia and Bailey 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 48 minutes ago, GlobalVillan said: I agree, and we won't be selling him anytime soon. But we need an upgrade to move to the next level. Or rather a more natural finisher in the squad. Easier said than done tho of course. Don't disagree but the last sentence is key That guaranteed 20 goal a season striker, which villa haven't had in my lifetime... Chelsea, man utd, arsenal all need him too So we should look to spread the goals around the team instead, get 2 more players in to double figures and suddenly Watkins output doesn't seem so bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 All I'm saying is if those cockroaches at Spurs come calling they aren't getting change from any Kane money if they want him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 17 hours ago, allani said: If he isn't prepared to play the role that Emery wants him to play then we would be better off saying goodbye. If Emery wants him to play more of a left sided, inside forward then that is the role that Ollie HAS to play. If he says "no I am only going to play as a CF" then quite frankly that should be an argument that he loses every single day of the week. Emery is THE most important cog in the wheel - far more so than any player. Obviously there is nothing so far to suggest that Emery won't play Ollie as a CF - but IF we sign another CF (which has been alluded to) then it is 100% up to Ollie to fit in with whatever Emery has planned. Now you're talking about moving him out of position. He's best where he is and we're not going to be able to improve on him this window. We're lucky to have him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 18 hours ago, nick76 said: Again, he may not be sitting on bench as I said in my previous post. If we buy somebody better or fits Emery’s system better then he’d have to deal with it wouldn’t he unless we got a bid that we accepted. Both of these reasons is why it’s far from 100% that he would be off. Emery has said every position is upgradeable, if there is a right player out that we could get and Emery wants then I would do it. The problem is, is there such a player. Ollie is a great player but I think he has many flaws which will hinder us. I don’t think replacing him is a priority but I certainly think striker competition is a priority. Given Emery’s comments in January and just a month or so ago, he agrees that we need another striker (not forward or wide forward he said striker) to be competitive with Ollie. I think Ollie will be our main CF next season but if we did get a chance to upgrade I certainly would and no I don’t know who that would be and fortunately not my job. We do at least need an alternative whatever the case. No, I don't think there is anyone available that would be an upgrade. I disagree, as evidenced by the complete lack of hindering he did by being a key component of a team that was 2nd best in the league in the year 2023. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 Watkins =7th in PL for most goal contributions. What would he be had Emery had the whole season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 17 hours ago, Jas10 said: A player like Felix (as ambitious, expensive and difficult it would be) would seem to be more of an actual enhancement or upgrade… Jesus. Let it go. He's not that good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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