Jas10 Posted June 10, 2023 Author Share Posted June 10, 2023 15 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: How about we keep Watkins as he has proved himself under Emery, whilst also sign an additional CF/ST if Archer is deemed not ready to step up yet? Loan out Duran regardless. Beat me to it sir. Sure, the question is not concerning whether to sell or keep Watkins. It’s whether he should be our main CF and continue to be or whether we should bring in a player to take on and potentially be better in that position. I like Watkins, I’ve explained my point of view. Signing another CF doesn’t necessarily mean we sell Watkins (that’s a different question and debate and depends on Ollie’s reaction). We can also sign a new striker and continue with Watkins as our number 1 CF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, romavillan said: Who do you mean? Tbf there aren't as many good number 9s around these days, and my player knowledge isn't what it used to be, but I'd be shocked if there's not plenty about in that gap between Watkins and the elite. Alexander Isak for one, very good player with excellent technical skills. Callum Wilson also just averaged a goal every 105 minutes this season gone, compared to Ollie's goal every 209 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 10, 2023 Author Share Posted June 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, romavillan said: Yeah I reckon Ollie can net 20+ in a full Emery season, He isn't a total footballer but he's potentially our first 20 goal a season striker for **** knows how long. Shopping for better means looking for a player who can score 20 goals a season and has a better all round game than Ollie. That costs an enormous amount of money if you are going for someone proven at this level. Soooo, I'd buy someone who has the potential to be that player if we don't think that Archer or Dhuran are going to play much as strikers. Gives competition to Ollie and we get to watch Ollie hopefully net 20+ goals too. Mostly agree, I can certainly see Ollie scoring more than 15 goals by playing under Unai for a full season and supported by better players and/or our existing attacking players playing at a higher standard. It’s still remarkable what Emery managed to achieve in a short time and the levels he elevated our players to. The only player that he himself chose and brought into the team was Moreno. As well as bringing in more of his “own players”, I wouldn’t be surprised to see some of our existing players improve even further. But a separate debate could also be had on whether certain players can sustain that or not… Last season was disruptive and we had a clown in charge previously… the future is bright and exciting. Unai is the man! It’s just interesting to have these debates and see how everyone feels or thinks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 10, 2023 Author Share Posted June 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Tbf there aren't as many good number 9s around these days, and my player knowledge isn't what it used to be, but I'd be shocked if there's not plenty about in that gap between Watkins and the elite. Alexander Isak for one, very good player with excellent technical skills. Callum Wilson also just averaged a goal every 105 minutes this season gone, compared to Ollie's goal every 209 minutes. I have to be honest and say that I much prefer Ollie to both of those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Silly question IMO, of course we keep Watkins. Why on earth would you roll the dice on a player who is: - One of, if not, the most athletic player in the league - Fits perfectly into and knows our system - Entering his prime - Contributes goals and assists - Is steadily improving under an excellent coach It would be foolish beyond belief. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 27 minutes ago, Tom13 said: I don't agree tbh. There are players inbetween the level of Watkins and the elite. Honestly there isn’t. Man Utd had Wout Weghorst up front. Arsenal Jesus and Nketiah , sometimes a makeshift striker in Trossard, Callum Wilson out performed Issac at Newcastle then you have Mitrovic and Toney good goalscorers but very different players to Ollie, Nunez hasn’t proved to be any better nor has Gakpo. None of the names above are better than Ollie one or 2 may be marginally better on their day but that’s about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 17 minutes ago, Jas10 said: I have to be honest and say that I much prefer Ollie to both of those players. Wilson I can see but Isak? Shocked at that. His ceiling is huge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 34 minutes ago, romavillan said: Yeah I reckon Ollie can net 20+ in a full Emery season, He isn't a total footballer but he's potentially our first 20 goal a season striker for **** knows how long. Shopping for better means looking for a player who can score 20 goals a season and has a better all round game than Ollie. That costs an enormous amount of money if you are going for someone proven at this level. Soooo, I'd buy someone who has the potential to be that player if we don't think that Archer or Dhuran are going to play much as strikers. Gives competition to Ollie and we get to watch Ollie hopefully net 20+ goals too. Maybe Duran and Archer are those 2 that might have the potential to be better, I just we need another solid 10 + goal a season striker that allows us to rest Ollie, even if it’s a 30 year old Borja Iglesias type player to play in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 10, 2023 Author Share Posted June 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, lexicon said: Silly question IMO, of course we keep Watkins. Why on earth would you roll the dice on a player who is: - One of, if not, the most athletic player in the league - Fits perfectly into and knows our system - Entering his prime - Contributes goals and assists - Is steadily improving under an excellent coach It would be foolish beyond belief. The question isn’t whether we keep or sell him, having to repeat this… It’s whether we bring in a new starting CF or keep faith in Ollie. We can still keep Ollie (if he’s happy to stick around) if we buy a new CF. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Just now, Jas10 said: The question isn’t whether we keep or sell him, having to repeat this… It’s whether we bring in a new starting CF or keep faith in Ollie. We can still keep Ollie (if he’s happy to stick around) if we buy a new CF. That's not realistic because there's no way he'd be happy to be on the bench and why would he? It's not a matter of faith either, we know he can do it - he's an incredibly important part of the spine of the team. He doesn't get near the respect he deserves from some of our fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 17 minutes ago, lexicon said: Silly question IMO, of course we keep Watkins. That’s not the question though, the question is should he continue to be our main CF…I wouldn’t sell him if we brought in somebody better. I think he can also play off the main CF precisely because of the attributes you mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, nick76 said: That’s not the question though, the question is should he continue to be our main CF…I wouldn’t sell him if we brought in somebody better. I think he can also play off the main CF precisely because of the attributes you mention. If he's not the main striker, he's not sticking around. It absolutely is the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 10, 2023 Author Share Posted June 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, lexicon said: That's not realistic because there's no way he'd be happy to be on the bench and why would he? It's not a matter of faith either, we know he can do it - he's an incredibly important part of the spine of the team. He doesn't get near the respect he deserves from some of our fans. It’s just a hypothetical or debate or question… doesn’t have to be taken too seriously. I like Ollie a lot and have never slated him but there are valid reasons for constructive criticism and reservations etc. no matter what side you’re on… It just can we do/have better in that CF position and should we make such a move? Just a bit of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 37 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Sure, the question is not concerning whether to sell or keep Watkins. It’s whether he should be our main CF and continue to be or whether we should bring in a player to take on and potentially be better in that position. I like Watkins, I’ve explained my point of view. Signing another CF doesn’t necessarily mean we sell Watkins (that’s a different question and debate and depends on Ollie’s reaction). We can also sign a new striker and continue with Watkins as our number 1 CF. I know that Jas and I never suggest ed selling Watkins, maybe how I worded my response seemed that way. I meant keep him aswell as sign someone else so they both share the role, or at times play them both where nessecary?. He will not manage our busy schedule of this coming season all on his own. Signing an additional CF/ST would be a yes from me if Archer isn't deemed ready to step up. Hope that clears it up mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, Jas10 said: It’s just a hypothetical or debate or question… doesn’t have to be taken too seriously. I like Ollie a lot and have never slated him but there are valid reasons for constructive criticism and reservations etc. no matter what side you’re on… It just can we do/have better in that CF position and should we make such a move? Just a bit of fun. Fun?! The internet is srs bsns, sir. Jokes aside, sorry If I've been a bit defensive re: Watkins - just got a bit tired of some people slating him this season. I don't think we can do better, no, and I don't think it's a priority right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 10, 2023 Author Share Posted June 10, 2023 1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said: I know that Jas and I never suggest ed selling Watkins, maybe how I worded my response seemed that way. I meant keep him aswell as sign someone else so they both share the role, or at times play them both where nessecary?. He will not manage our busy schedule of this coming season all on his own. Signing an additional CF/ST would be a yes from me if Archer isn't deemed ready to step up. Hope that clears it up mate. No problem at all and I respect your opinion, that’s the point - to see what our views on this subject are. No need for anyone to be offended or worked up etc. We don’t have to agree but should provide some reasoning. Yours is a perfectly acceptable and respectable stance and makes a lot of sense. For me, there’s no doubt that we need to sign a new striker. My question here is whether Ollie should stay as our main man or can we bring in someone better, more reliable, more clinical. If it’s a situation that can be managed (keeping both players happy and wanting to stick around) then having another CF “alongside” or at least as good as Ollie (for rotation and competition) is a great situation to be in… It’s not always easy or clear but though is it. See the Ings scenario… but I expect Unai to manage things a lot better and have a clear plan or idea… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted June 10, 2023 Author Share Posted June 10, 2023 Just now, lexicon said: Fun?! The internet is srs bsns, sir. Jokes aside, sorry If I've been a bit defensive re: Watkins - just got a bit tired of some people slating him this season. I don't think we can do better, no, and I don't think it's a priority right now. No worries mate… I just find it interesting. I admire your affection for Ollie, he’s one of our most likeable players. Respect you’re opinion and I believe that it’s likely that we’ll go that way… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Just now, lexicon said: If he's not the main striker, he's not sticking around. It absolutely is the question. 1) You’re assuming that, it may not be the case 2) Based ALSO on the question it would assume we would be buying somebody better or better suited to Emery’s system and style, otherwise why would we do it. If that’s the case then if Ollie left then so be it. If we are buying a new main striker the assumption has to be he’s better than Ollie. We can debate if there is somebody, can we afford and all that separately but in answer to the question posed if we are buying another striker to be the main striker next season either a) Ollie wants to leave and already told us b) we have a bid we can’t refuse c) we are able to get another striker whose better for Emery’s system and style d) we can play Ollie off the new main striker or rotation. I think it’s a win win apart from a) which I don’t think is the case because b), c) and d) are all positives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody1000 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 23 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Wilson I can see but Isak? Shocked at that. His ceiling is huge. I’m not surprised, the bloke is 6ft 4… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Watkins is a definite keep for me at this moment in time. Mainly because I can’t think of anyone (gettable target) who could replace him and give us what Watkins does overall? His work rate is phenomenal, his goals record under Emery is pretty darn good as well. Yes, we know he has flaws to his game, but who doesn’t? If we sold him for approximately 50-60m, who could we replace him with? I would rather we supplement the forward line this summer with another player, who can either play with Watkins or lead the line when Watkins isn’t available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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