Popular Post MrBlack Posted May 21 Popular Post Share Posted May 21 1 hour ago, thabucks said: Some of you have a really deep dislike to someone whose jobs remit is pretty simple - increase revenues. somone handpicked by self made billionaire Wes Edens who knows a thing or two about running successful sports teams so forgive me for trusting him over some of you with a strange personal vendetta against Heck based on your weird conspiracies and unsubstantiated accusations put across as fact. Not sure if you're including me in the list, but to provide my two cents... He's doing a great job increasing revenue whilst also reducing (or minimising increased) costs. He's doing a terrible job of keeping the core match going fan base happy and seems to want to alienate another 900 this post season. He's doing a terrible job of communicating the changes he's making, and demonstrably lying in interviews with paid for journalists. Overall, if his remit is singularly what you say, then he's currently doing that well. But he's got a limited amount of good will left to abuse to continue on his income increasing ventures at the fans detriment without expanding the capacity of Villa Park. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 6 minutes ago, thabucks said: How do gauge if we were adequately consulted? Did the survey push the likely results in a certain direction ? Did the fan focus groups get steered and was that a broad enough spectrum to speak for all fans ? I wouldn’t say it’s a lie to say fans weren't adequately consulted. Maybe NSWE were not happy with the whole process. I voted against the circular badge but I was given a choice of two. Also they’ve used the results of these consultations of what the fans wanted out of a badge and then produced their own. Fans wanted the lion reverted, wanted Aston Villa rather than avfc, wanted the year and the star. we’ve got all that. The colours not so but I get why they’ve kept them as they are. I don’t see the lies in what he says at all. Over two surveys around a quarter bothered to respond. I'd be OK if you just said Heck has a clear remit and us fans need to let him at it. But you seem to be bending over to defend him when the missteps in this re-rebranding exercise have been pretty well documented. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 I don’t really see the marketing week article full of (provable) lies. Lots of ambiguous language that could have multiple meanings. The issues that the article does bring up is that there was concerns about the round badge (what there was) and the process of getting to it (lack of options) and these were the reasons why we changed to our current badge. However there is fan concerns about this one too and fans had no options or any (known) consultation regarding it or its design. There should have been, but it’s clear the fans were cut out from the process. However, working in an adjacent industry, this stuff does take a lot of time and it appears Heck/club decided to cut the fans out to save time and meet this deadline. Now, we have a serviceable badge, with wider branding, but it’s not exactly ideal for the fans, particularly with their input this current badge could of been made a tad more acceptable and in turn a lot more accepted by the fans. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Two biggest claims in the latest article... He didn't know we were planning to change the badge Quote "Then all of a sudden, I show up on day one and it changed – you can imagine that was quite a shock,” Heck recalls. Well what research did he do about the job offer? We launched our original crest redesign survey in June 2022 and announced the results that November. He wasn't hired until May 2023. The other one... he consulted the fans more than previously... Quote We’re cleaning it up,” Heck explains. This time, Aston Villa has consulted its fanbase in depth, after complaints the options they received last time around didn’t offer much choice. Well that's just not true. We did a single survey, much like last time, but then the meetings with Fan Advisory boards were cancelled and we didn't get a vote on it. It's not the acts of a pathological liar, but it is someone trying to make themselves look better than they are . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 2 minutes ago, NorthEastVillan said: Quite a big ask to sell 300,000 shirts per season. Think we sold around 175,000 in 22/23. Obviously increased exposure due to CL will boost sales, plus Adidas it a big pull in itself. I know Heck stated we have 300 million fans in that article, but I’m calling that out as another lie. IMO obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukes Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Frankly, if fans think that Heck cares what they think then I'd say they are mistaken. This is business, his job is business, it's got nothing at all to do with being popular. He has a proper and legit background in making huge leaps in commercial incomein a dimilar indystry, with our issues of PSR/FFP, how else do fans believe we'll close the gap and compete? The same people that are complaining about this BS are the same people who will complain when we aren't outspending Chelsea and Spurs and other rivals that are ahead of our curve. I don't care if the badge is a hexagon with a pink unicorn riding the lion (whichever way the lion is facing). Swapping Castore for Adidas is a great move, Heck has clearly stated its the best deal in the club's history, why would we doubt him ? The accounts will soon show the truth. Like it or not, fans do not need to understand and empathise with everyone employed by the club, if Heck doesn't do a good job he'll be moved on by the owners just as others have. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 2 minutes ago, ender4 said: I know Heck stated we have 300 million fans in that article, but I’m calling that out as another lie. IMO obviously. Yeah he told me we had 1.5bn fans in china alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 Can't wait for him to walk into the next premier league meeting decked out in Adiddas clobber. "Whattup Cocksuckers?!" Good lord. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 23 minutes ago, nepal_villan said: I'd be OK if you just said Heck has a clear remit and us fans need to let him at it. But you seem to be bending over to defend him when the missteps in this re-rebranding exercise have been pretty well documented. Just trying to debate and add balance not defending him but appreciate it may sound like a I’m heckie I kinda know about the inner mechanisms of how a football club operates at a lower level and will alway give people the benefit of the doubt if I’m not aware of the full facts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieGriffin Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 18 minutes ago, Made In Aston said: Yeah he told me we had 1.5bn fans in china alone. He told me we had 1.6bn!! The man is clearly a pathological liar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepal_villan Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 16 minutes ago, thabucks said: Just trying to debate and add balance not defending him but appreciate it may sound like a I’m heckie I kinda know about the inner mechanisms of how a football club operates at a lower level and will alway give people the benefit of the doubt if I’m not aware of the full facts. Understood. I also hope people realize, similar to you, there are quite a few supporters that frequent this forum that have a lot of domain expertise - be it in design, branding, marketing, sports business, etc and we should not dismiss everyone as hecklers or amateurs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 23 minutes ago, StewieGriffin said: He told me we had 1.6bn!! The man is clearly a pathological liar He told me that he thinks all fans are cocksuckers, and that despite the hundreds of thousands of cocksuckers, he actually rarely gets his sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 1 hour ago, StewieGriffin said: He told me we had 1.6bn!! The man is clearly a pathological liar The bugger! Next you will be telling me that his story about sleeping with a different woman every night for the last 5 years is also a lie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 12 hours ago, Czarnikjak said: Probably nothing substantial would change, but frustrations would be vented and a new face, perhaps more trustworthy, could be enough to appease fans. That seems like a great way to run a football club. Campaign to get a guy who the owners believe is doing a good job (assuming they do) and is making progress on improving club revenues (which he is) because a few people are upset that he's binned an entirely unfit for purpose badge, followed the request of the owners in terms of revenue and apparently sounded off at the incompetence of previous employees in a private meeting. The only people sacking Heck should be NSWE because he's failed to deliver what he promised them he would. If we don't like the price rises, aims to increase our average spend per person per match then we should be directing our ire at NSWE (they are the ones that are ultimately responsible for the business strategy) or at the PL / UEFA (who have imposed the rules that force clubs to raise revenues in order to be able to compete). No PBO will be able to be completely open and honest about everything that is going on because it could damage the club's position in commercial negotiations. Every PBO is going to spin a few messages to make the club or themselves look a bit better. It seems to me that Heck is doing a good job - sponsorship is better, the branding ideas are pretty good (although I wish he'd been more aggressive in changing the badge), the adidas move is great, the decision to bin off Fanatics is really good and Atairos / Comcast is potentially a game changer. Obviously he's not 100% responsible for all of those just as Emery isn't 100% responsible for us getting into the UCL (he needed the owners to back him with key transfers, the buy-in of the players, a strong coaching team, etc). Could he have handled some things better - almost certainly. But I fully trust NSWE to have set Heck's performance targets, assess him against those and decide his future based on that rather than to "appease" a few fans who don't like the way he's done a few things (even if ultimately those things are better for the club). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 22 Moderator Share Posted May 22 Posts on shirt deal moved to here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 On 22/05/2024 at 07:20, allani said: That seems like a great way to run a football club. Campaign to get a guy who the owners believe is doing a good job (assuming they do) and is making progress on improving club revenues (which he is) because a few people are upset that he's binned an entirely unfit for purpose badge, followed the request of the owners in terms of revenue and apparently sounded off at the incompetence of previous employees in a private meeting. The only people sacking Heck should be NSWE because he's failed to deliver what he promised them he would. If we don't like the price rises, aims to increase our average spend per person per match then we should be directing our ire at NSWE (they are the ones that are ultimately responsible for the business strategy) or at the PL / UEFA (who have imposed the rules that force clubs to raise revenues in order to be able to compete). No PBO will be able to be completely open and honest about everything that is going on because it could damage the club's position in commercial negotiations. Every PBO is going to spin a few messages to make the club or themselves look a bit better. It seems to me that Heck is doing a good job - sponsorship is better, the branding ideas are pretty good (although I wish he'd been more aggressive in changing the badge), the adidas move is great, the decision to bin off Fanatics is really good and Atairos / Comcast is potentially a game changer. Obviously he's not 100% responsible for all of those just as Emery isn't 100% responsible for us getting into the UCL (he needed the owners to back him with key transfers, the buy-in of the players, a strong coaching team, etc). Could he have handled some things better - almost certainly. But I fully trust NSWE to have set Heck's performance targets, assess him against those and decide his future based on that rather than to "appease" a few fans who don't like the way he's done a few things (even if ultimately those things are better for the club). I guess it's inevitable when a change is made ie Purslow for Heck...its for a reason...and some things initially, in his remit, may seem unsavoury for us.....on the other hand, his ability, to raise funds from sponsorship, and fight for corporate revenue, may seem decent. I will reserve judgment on him, for further up the line, and will factor in, his "Cruel to be kind" stance in his early work.....but at some stage, I think he will have to win over the fans, in the same way, Unai Has. some will say, he doesn't really have to.....I think he does. Maybe not now, but further down the line, he might have to show, a bit more humility, to the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 39 minutes ago, TRO said: I guess it's inevitable when a change is made ie Purslow for Heck...its for a reason...and some things initially, in his remit, may seem unsavoury for us.....on the other hand, his ability, to raise funds from sponsorship, and fight for corporate revenue, may seem decent. I will reserve judgment on him, for further up the line, and will factor in, his "Cruel to be kind" stance in his early work.....but at some stage, I think he will have to win over the fans, in the same way, Unai Has. some will say, he doesn't really have to.....I think he does. Maybe not now, but further down the line, he might have to show, a bit more humility, to the masses. Humility isn't in his dictionary. His puff piece shows he's all about Brand Heck. I loved his declaration of our previous arrangements as "not good deals". It's almost like they were signed when we were relegation candidates and not in Europe, let alone on the cusp of the champions league. Would love to see what he can achieve in those circumstances. Despite some promising elements to what he's done, and a few good things lately, my overriding feeling about him is still negative. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 43 minutes ago, TRO said: I guess it's inevitable when a change is made ie Purslow for Heck...its for a reason...and some things initially, in his remit, may seem unsavoury for us.....on the other hand, his ability, to raise funds from sponsorship, and fight for corporate revenue, may seem decent. I will reserve judgment on him, for further up the line, and will factor in, his "Cruel to be kind" stance in his early work.....but at some stage, I think he will have to win over the fans, in the same way, Unai Has. some will say, he doesn't really have to.....I think he does. Maybe not now, but further down the line, he might have to show, a bit more humility, to the masses. I get the feeling if he was here to stay he would try better with the fans therefore I think his remit is for the short term of say three years to get in, do a load of work and then get out and then NSWE have a bigger product and bring a longer term person who will be more fan friendly because all the “bad” decisions in fans eyes have been done and it’s about growth from a higher level. I’ve seen something similar where boards bring in “Executive Consultants” brought into a company, reviewed from top to bottom, make some very dramatic changes over the course of a specific time and then once almost complete, new Executives are brought to help run the business going forwards along with a few of the old Executive’s. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: I get the feeling if he was here to stay he would try better with the fans therefore I think his remit is for the short term of say three years to get in, do a load of work and then get out and then NSWE have a bigger product and bring a longer term person who will be more fan friendly because all the “bad” decisions in fans eyes have been done and it’s about growth from a higher level. I’ve seen something similar where boards bring in “Executive Consultants” brought into a company, reviewed from top to bottom, make some very dramatic changes over the course of a specific time and then once almost complete, new Executives are brought to help run the business going forwards along with a few of the old Executive’s. quite feasible Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted June 4 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4 (edited) I'm not saying that I agree with the strategy outlined below, just trying to work out what the club and Heck might be thinking. Heck and NSWE will have looked at potential revenue streams and people on here won't want to here it, but regular match going fans aren't as important as they think. I'd guess there are 50,000 fans who regularly go to see Villa live. I'll be generous and double that to 100,000 fans. The club has 2.2 million fans on Instagram, so again being generous to 'regular' fan's let's reduce that to 2 million. There's probably double that amount of fan's worldwide who follow Villa, bit merchandise and provide clicks on links etc. However, let's ignore this and leave it at 2 million fan's. The 100,000 match day fan's still only equates to 5% of the fan base that Villa can try and generate money from. Realistically, this number is way lower. Especially when the club will want to attract 'plastic' fan's from around the world. As much as he is annoying a certain set of fan's, the club won't really care and Heck won't make decisions based on these fan's feelings. If the club genuinely want to grow and compete, this is a good thing. Edited June 4 by Rds1983 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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