duke313 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, messi11 said: Hasn't he got like 200 goals and assists combined in 300 games? Probably has, but a lot of them are in the Championship and SPL. Was looking more at his output since he joined Lyon, got off to a decent start in first two seasons, then faltered a bit and flopped at Atletico, had a really impressive season last season and now has stumbled a bit. Not amazing, but not terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Just now, MrBlack said: Only if you think Emery doesn't know what he's doing. Not necessarily! Based on your analysis of the detail and conversation on here that it doesn’t seem matter whether he signs or not…this means it can be seen as win win or lose lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 12 minutes ago, messi11 said: Hasn't he got like 200 goals and assists combined in 300 games? Moussa Dembele - Across his career 125 Goals And Assists - 160 Starts Danny Ings - Across Career 114 Goals and Assists - 194 Starts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messi11 Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share Posted January 20, 2023 12 minutes ago, duke313 said: Probably has, but a lot of them are in the Championship and SPL. Was looking more at his output since he joined Lyon, got off to a decent start in first two seasons, then faltered a bit and flopped at Atletico, had a really impressive season last season and now has stumbled a bit. Not amazing, but not terrible. 21 goals in 25 starts in Ligue One last season. If we was after him in the summer we'd all be buzzing. Seems the type Emery will get the best out of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, nick76 said: Not necessarily! Based on your analysis of the detail and conversation on here that it doesn’t seem matter whether he signs or not…this means it can be seen as win win or lose lose. Not quite. My point is, if he signs, then the fact he has a consistently good goal+assist record over his career (with a few blips), means we can be confident that Emery sees more than just that, and can explain/ justify the drops, and wanted to sign him. If we don't sign him, we can point to the blips and say Emery must have the detail that explains why those blips are more than just exceptions, and we can be happy he wouldn't have improved us. That assumes he wants to join us. If you think its lose lose, then you think Emery would be miscalculating his value to us and making the wrong call if we signed him or not. I guess the real point I'm making is blind faith in Emery at the moment is nice to have and relieves stress. We'll see if it lasts. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messi11 Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share Posted January 20, 2023 17 minutes ago, duke313 said: Probably has, but a lot of them are in the Championship and SPL. Was looking more at his output since he joined Lyon, got off to a decent start in first two seasons, then faltered a bit and flopped at Atletico, had a really impressive season last season and now has stumbled a bit. Not amazing, but not terrible. I mean..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Moussa Dembele goals per 90 Mins (League only) 22/23: 0.3 21/22: 0.9 20/21: 0.1 19/20: 0.7 18/19: 0.7 17/18: 0.6 16/17: 0.8 15/16: 0.4 That dates back to when he was 19. He hasn't become the superstar that it looked like he'd become at one point. He's had a couple of bad periods but strikers often do, by and large he's scored goals relatively consistently. I wouldn't be disappointed if we didn't sign him, but there's enough there to get excited about if the move did happen and Emery thought he could get him firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, MrBlack said: Not quite. My point is, if he signs, then the fact he has a consistently good goal+assist record over his career (with a few blips), means we can be confident that Emery sees more than just that, and can explain/ justify the drops, and wanted to sign him. If we don't sign him, we can point to the blips and say Emery must have the detail that explains why those blips are more than just exceptions, and we can be happy he wouldn't have improved us. That assumes he wants to join us. If you think its lose lose, then you think Emery would be miscalculating his value to us and making the wrong call if we signed him or not. I guess the real point I'm making is blind faith in Emery at the moment is nice to have and relieves stress. We'll see if it lasts. . Ahh that makes more sense. I agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, villaglint said: Moussa Dembele - Across his career 125 Goals And Assists - 160 Starts Danny Ings - Across Career 114 Goals and Assists - 194 Starts To provide some caveats.. Dembele has played at strong teams in overall weaker leagues than the PL. Dembele played 3 seasons at the best team in a weak Scottish league. Dembele has consistently played for a team that is top third of the French league. He also played 2 seasons at a strong Fulham in the championship. He's never scored in the PL (admittedly only played 2 games there though). It's this that makes him potentially a great signing, but one with huge risks. My take is Emery has weighed out those risks, and if we get him it means he's concluded they are worth taking, and I will agree with him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Ings scoring record this season has been good. But he has always been a square peg in a round hole and his transfer is for the best in my opinion. I expect him to be similar at West Ham unless they plan to play Antonio alongside him. In which case he should do well. He was never an Emery striker. His teams utilise fast strikers, or deep lying strikers, Ings is just not mobile enough or has the dribbling ability and agility those strikers require. Dembele has pace and power, Duran has pace and power. Ollie has pace and is robust. The theme here is clear. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, MrBlack said: To provide some caveats.. Dembele has played at strong teams in overall weaker leagues than the PL. Dembele played 3 seasons at the best team in a weak Scottish league. Dembele has consistently played for a team that is top third of the French league. He also played 2 seasons at a strong Fulham in the championship. He's never scored in the PL (admittedly only played 2 games there though). It's this that makes him potentially a great signing, but one with huge risks. My take is Emery has weighed out those risks, and if we get him it means he's concluded they are worth taking, and I will agree with him. Given his contract position I am not sure it is a huge risk. You would imagine that if he comes and does OK then in 18 months we'd be looking to make a decent profit on the transfer fee even if we lose a bit in order to adjust for the fact that his wages will be higher. If he comes in and struggles badly it might be harder to sell him back to a league in Europe but in the meantime it has probably given us another couple of months to get Duran settled without the pressure of him suddenly being our only striker if Ollie is injured. Not sure that he would have been top of my shopping list but if we can get him in on decent wages and a good fee then he certainly gives us a bit more time to find the proper answer in the summer. In the meantime if he comes in and hits form quickly then the deal could quickly look like an absolute steal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 12 minutes ago, Philosopher said: Ings scoring record this season has been good. But he has always been a square peg in a round hole and his transfer is for the best in my opinion. I expect him to be similar at West Ham unless they plan to play Antonio alongside him. In which case he should do well. He was never an Emery striker. His teams utilise fast strikers, or deep lying strikers, Ings is just not mobile enough or has the dribbling ability and agility those strikers require. Dembele has pace and power, Duran has pace and power. Ollie has pace and is robust. The theme here is clear. Also I think it puts the pressure on Ollie a bit more (in a good way). The things that he had going for him we didn't really have elsewhere in the squad. Now it looks like we have more options so he's going to have to work a bit harder (in terms of developing his game) in order to keep hold of the shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, allani said: Given his contract position I am not sure it is a huge risk. You would imagine that if he comes and does OK then in 18 months we'd be looking to make a decent profit on the transfer fee even if we lose a bit in order to adjust for the fact that his wages will be higher. If he comes in and struggles badly it might be harder to sell him back to a league in Europe but in the meantime it has probably given us another couple of months to get Duran settled without the pressure of him suddenly being our only striker if Ollie is injured. Not sure that he would have been top of my shopping list but if we can get him in on decent wages and a good fee then he certainly gives us a bit more time to find the proper answer in the summer. In the meantime if he comes in and hits form quickly then the deal could quickly look like an absolute steal. Meant more in the performance sense than the financial sense. Financially I agree, it's virtually no risk as he's going to be way below market value at 6 months contract, but if we are able to sell on because Jhon has developed quickly then we'll more then recoup our money. If he flops, we lose the wages, but probably still recover our fee based on his previous European form. Performance, you don't get much higher risk than a never played in the PL kind of player. Jhon I guess would be more risk given age and even lower quality of league experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 I think it’s a bit of a shrewd business getting Dembele, most likely he will not be our future striker, just for this season then probably for the squad (unless he’s done really well) in the summer I think him or Watkins will be sold while we get our marquee striker signing which we’ve been waiting for. Until that time we’ll see how Dembele and Duran do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, MrBlack said: Meant more in the performance sense than the financial sense. Financially I agree, it's virtually no risk as he's going to be way below market value at 6 months contract, but if we are able to sell on because Jhon has developed quickly then we'll more then recoup our money. If he flops, we lose the wages, but probably still recover our fee based on his previous European form. Performance, you don't get much higher risk than a never played in the PL kind of player. Jhon I guess would be more risk given age and even lower quality of league experience. True - but he has played in France and Spain so he has "top 5 domestic league" experience. He's also played and lived in the UK before so the culture shock shouldn't be an issue. If UE has been looking at him for a while then it suggests that he thinks that he's the type of player that will do well in his kind of system. All of which do, I think, reduce the performance risk. If he's only come up as an option because Ings is leaving then from a performance risk he'd have to be really bad to be not better than not having someone! I'm not "out of my seat" excited by the links but it looks like he is the right "type" of player. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 hours ago, HKP90 said: Deulofeu links have gone quiet. Hope that is a good sign, as that's how the club does business these days. He has confirmed he loves udinese and doesnt want to leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Just now, Demitri_C said: He has confirmed he loves udinese and doesnt want to leave Oh no! Anyway........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicRic Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 hours ago, skarroki said: Everton won the transfer window 3 years in a row, people were discussing top 4 under Ancelotti. They look bad now with the benefit of hindsight. I just think it's all relative and I really don't think that window we brought in Samatta, Baston, Reina and Drinkwater is looked on as the window that kept us up. I wasn't referring specifically to Ziyech just to the idea of signing someone on loan to plug a gap for a few months. I don't care how good they are if they don't fit the system and they're not staying long term Sometimes temporarily until you as a club are ready to make a strong decision you have to use fillers, not a fan of too many of that sort but one filler can either help or give you the extra option until you are ready to assess and spend wisely. Yes Everton were a hotbed for all these top names but no well designed system for everyone to work together… too many changes with no idea is a recipe for disaster. I remember us being linked to Olise when he was at Reading saying i don't want no more players from the championship but that was my ignorance because goodness me he is some bloody player, a real special talent and i wish we had signed him now he will be at a top 6 club VERY soon mark my words, that kid is a talented individual, does need to work on his attitude towards the media and etc however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicRic Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Rustibrooks said: Lacazette’s arrival and Lacazette is a cult hero for them before joining Arsenal the first time. Plus Dembele was injured at the start of the season so it’s a combination of that really. Fair enough, something still doesn’t feel right im not that convinced i can see him firing for us, i hope that isn’t the top forward priority we were looking for if he were to sign, there are better options surely no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Now that Ings has been sold, if we can sell or loan Nakamba and Sanson to get their wages off the books, then signing both Matteo Guendouzi and Jonathan David would improve our starting eleven considerably. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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