The Football Pyramid :(

[a m ole]

A post in the Brighton thread just got me thinking, as Chelsea spend £298b on transfers and poach Brighton’s coaching staff a few games into the season because they felt like they were slipping away from 3rd place.

In theory, the football pyramid means clubs up and down the country, from Bury to Truro City, have a chance at glory one day. The sad reality is we all know that’s not the case. The world will end before Walsall will ever lift a Premier League trophy.

Thinking out loud, and this is a hard pill to swallow, but is it time to accept defeat? Would English football benefit from a closed shop system like American sports? Could it be a horrible revolution that eventually changes the sport for the better instead of being destined to see the same clubs finish in roughly the same positions for perpetuity while some clubs go bankrupt trying to tread water? More rules to prevent player and coach hoarding, stealing, etc?

I’m imagining maybe a 2 tiered league system with no relegation from that. Who gets to join? I don’t know. Maybe smaller clubs would merge and create a potentially more prosperous club for both sets of fans.

I’m aware that the horse has bolted and there is zero chance of such a thing being allowed to happen by the tOp SiX without them getting something in return, but there has to be some way of making the sport healthier for all because the longer it goes on, the faster non-eLiTe clubs fans are gonna start to give up.

We should have let them **** off to the ESL.

Edited September 9, 2022 by a m ole

[StewieGriffin]

Regardless of the Big Super Rich Sky Six love in, one of the remaining joys of football is seeing a Brighton, Brentford etc get promoted and do really well and establish themselves as a fresh and vibrant club.

Conversely, you get the just deserts over the years of seeing badly run/managed clubs like Villa, Newcastle, Leeds, Sunderland etc get relegated. The "benefit" of being relegated is that you get to reset and refresh away from the glare of the Premier League.

Closing it all off stops both sides of the coin happening. The one drawback of the NFL for me is that there's no real consequence for poorly managed teams - sure they tank for a few seasons, but if they use draft picks smartly and build then they improve (Cleveland being a good example). Unless we implemented a draft system, we'd most likely end up with a huge split in quality between top and bottom and things would pretty much stay the same as they are now.

It's all be better if they shared TV revenue equally, but that will never get put through so the only way to fix it is for those 6 to **** off and roll around in their Super League cash whilst the rest of us get on with it.

Edited September 9, 2022 by StewieGriffin

[NoelVilla]

I have been thinking about this and the only suggestions I have won't solve the problem and will be almost impossible to implement.

A salary cap and smaller squad allowed to register for players over 21. I am thinking 22 like it used to be in the World Cup. In a injury crisis you have to use U-21s. The salary cap counts on the 22. A maximum set by the league for contracts for Under-21s.

[villa4europe]

Scrapping the CL would be the best start 

Created a pyramid in every league in europe

Edited September 9, 2022 by villa4europe

[Zatman]

Football is and has been broken for a long time that it really cant be fixed. Even the big clubs are worried they tried to start a Super League

The game needs to be completely rebooted but its impossible to fix and most importantly FIFA/UEFA/Premier League etc. have no intention to fix it

[Tomaszk]

The super league clubs should have been booted immediately.

They had no broadcast deals in place. They had no broadcast income. They would have come crawling back and the PL could have balanced their prize money back out.

When the streaming wars start up, it's really going to kick off. Super league in some form will likely take over from the champions league.

[KAZZAM]

It's the fans which cause this by all supporting the big clubs. They are the majority so sky pander to them. All of sky's pundits are Man u or Liverpool for that reason. 

Not alot can be done tbh you get shit loads of United and Liverpool fans from the westcountry and even London. And theyve all got there story's on lock or are children of glory supporters. 

Lopsided supporting will always keep the big clubs on top. 

 

[zab6359]

3 hours ago, a m ole said:

A post in the Brighton thread just got me thinking, as Chelsea spend £298b on transfers and poach Brighton’s coaching staff a few games into the season because they felt like they were slipping away from 3rd place.

In theory, the football pyramid means clubs up and down the country, from Bury to Truro City, have a chance at glory one day. The sad reality is we all know that’s not the case. The world will end before Walsall will ever lift a Premier League trophy.

Thinking out loud, and this is a hard pill to swallow, but is it time to accept defeat? Would English football benefit from a closed shop system like American sports? Could it be a horrible revolution that eventually changes the sport for the better instead of being destined to see the same clubs finish in roughly the same positions for perpetuity while some clubs go bankrupt trying to tread water? More rules to prevent player and coach hoarding, stealing, etc?

I’m imagining maybe a 2 tiered league system with no relegation from that. Who gets to join? I don’t know. Maybe smaller clubs would merge and create a potentially more prosperous club for both sets of fans.

I’m aware that the horse has bolted and there is zero chance of such a thing being allowed to happen by the tOp SiX without them getting something in return, but there has to be some way of making the sport healthier for all because the longer it goes on, the faster non-eLiTe clubs fans are gonna start to give up.

We should have let them **** off to the ESL.

That sums it up for me someone missed a trick not allowing the ESL to happen.

You say the world will end before Walsall lift a PL trophy I think the same can be said for seeing Aston Villa lift a PL trophy if I’m really honest, I think Leicester will be the last upset we will ever see maybe Newcastle at some point.

[OutByEaster?]

It's us that's the problem, we still think we're following a sport when we're actually watching a TV show.

It's not just football either, all sport is becoming this way, it's just that the more successful it is, the more pronounced that becomes.

[daft]

3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

It's us that's the problem, we still think we're following a sport when we're actually watching a TV show.

It's not just football either, all sport is becoming this way, it's just that the more successful it is, the more pronounced that becomes.

This. With the insane amounts of money for TV deals etc, the production companies must have some safe 'heroes' the consumers can identify with, so they reinforce the big lads lead by promoting them, focusing on them and creating narratives around them. The rest of the teams are just the faceless villains we see glimpses of in match sequences in All or Nothing. Inconsequential and uninteresting. It's all very depressing. 

[villa89]

The problem with football is that you  buy success. So whoever has the most money wins. That's not what sport should be but it's what football is. NFL is a great example of a properly run sport, you can have all the money but you can't just buy the best players. 

[OutByEaster?]

29 minutes ago, villa89 said:

The problem with football is that you  buy success. So whoever has the most money wins. That's not what sport should be but it's what football is. NFL is a great example of a properly run sport, you can have all the money but you can't just buy the best players. 

The NFL has a fantastic structure in that it's the league that's the product - the NFL owns the teams, the league is the company - revenue is shared, the principle of parity is maintained and the idea is to make 'the league' exciting - as a fan of an NFL team, you've a pretty good chance of seeing your team compete to win it at some point in your lifetime.

It's almost the exact opposite of here where the teams own the league, and the aim is for each team, each company, to be as individually successful as possible, even at the expense of the other teams or the league.

 

[newhavenhibby]

Agreed, cannot remember the Jets winning the Superbowl in 1968 but hoping the system enables them to rise to the top again soon............mind you been saying that for years.

Over to see them again in December v the Lions and no doubt our season will already be over! 

[villa4europe]

I was genuinely more excited for the start of the NFL than I was this weekends football, even for the start of the PL 

Would say I still watch my team almost exclusively rather than everything but I love the NFL

[Thug]

5 hours ago, KAZZAM said:

It's the fans which cause this by all supporting the big clubs. They are the majority so sky pander to them. All of sky's pundits are Man u or Liverpool for that reason. 

Not alot can be done tbh you get shit loads of United and Liverpool fans from the westcountry and even London. And theyve all got there story's on lock or are children of glory supporters. 

Lopsided supporting will always keep the big clubs on top. 

 

THIS.

it’s awful when you go to a sports store in birmingham, and you see more Man U and liverpool - and now even Arsenal and bloody spurs - merchandise than Villa stuff.  First you think bastard shop owners! Then you realise it’s just supplying for the demand.

It’s **** awful.

On a Wednesday 5 aside in birmingham, if the ten players, there’s me (villa) and one other guy (baggies) that support birmingham clubs. The rest are Man U liverpool Arsenal and spurs.  All born and bred in birmingham.

80% supporting non local teams.  And I’m not talking just armchair supporters.  Half these guys are season ticket holders at these clubs, or at the very least are buying their merchandise.

[bannedfromHandV]

Absolutely not.

I’d hate to see a closed shop in football, a far better solution is to introduce a salary cap per each division.

I started watching the Wrexham (Reynolds/McElheny) documentary and it blew their minds that a club can go from the bottom to the top division, I’ve personally always thought the greatest strength in English football isn’t the top few clubs but rather the wider pyramid. The fact that the championship often records higher attendance than many first divisions in other countries is testament to that, I doubt there’s any 3rd or 4th divisions out there that attract even close to what our 3rd and 4th divisions attract. 
Part of the allure of supporting a small club is that maybe one day they could make it to the PL, a la Swansea, Bournemouth, Wigan, Barnsley and SHA.

Try telling those fans it’s gonna be a closed shop.

[villa4europe]

11 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Absolutely not.

I’d hate to see a closed shop in football, a far better solution is to introduce a salary cap per each division.

I started watching the Wrexham (Reynolds/McElheny) documentary and it blew their minds that a club can go from the bottom to the top division, I’ve personally always thought the greatest strength in English football isn’t the top few clubs but rather the wider pyramid. The fact that the championship often records higher attendance than many first divisions in other countries is testament to that, I doubt there’s any 3rd or 4th divisions out there that attract even close to what our 3rd and 4th divisions attract. 
Part of the allure of supporting a small club is that maybe one day they could make it to the PL, a la Swansea, Bournemouth, Wigan, Barnsley and SHA.

Try telling those fans it’s gonna be a closed shop.

I would lazily throw out there that's its easier for Wrexham to get to the PL than it is for villa to win the league, the problem with football is at the very top, like I said the CL 

American sports have and benefit from the weird structure where there should be thousands of professional sports teams given the size of the country but there isn't, not sure they even have an equivalent Sunday league structure, instead it's seemingly all propped up by the non professional college sports 

We can't replicate it 

Agree on the salary cap though, one of footballs many problems is that players would rather be a well paid sub at a top 4 club than a well paid star player at a mid table club, man City paying de Bruyne and Haaland £500k a week is not what's breaking football its them paying the likes of grealish, Ake, John stones, Phillips, mahrez so much money not to play every week that's doing it, grealish and phillips are what is wrong with football

[ozvillafan]

Salary cap isn't the answer.

We have a salary cap down here for the NRL (National Rugby League) competition.

Yet the same teams always have the better players. How? Easy.

Money in brown paper bags handed out in the parking lot. 3rd party deals. Silent sponsorships. "Official" contracts for the league to see, actual ones hidden safely away. There's even been team trips to Vegas where every player - every single one - came away a big winner.

Your position in the league is decided by who has the most money and the most creative accountants. The poorer, honest clubs who try to do the right thing? They're always down the bottom of the table.

[NoelVilla]

1 hour ago, ozvillafan said:

Salary cap isn't the answer.

We have a salary cap down here for the NRL (National Rugby League) competition.

Yet the same teams always have the better players. How? Easy.

Money in brown paper bags handed out in the parking lot. 3rd party deals. Silent sponsorships. "Official" contracts for the league to see, actual ones hidden safely away. There's even been team trips to Vegas where every player - every single one - came away a big winner.

Your position in the league is decided by who has the most money and the most creative accountants. The poorer, honest clubs who try to do the right thing? They're always down the bottom of the table.

But that is not really a problem with the salary cap. Seems like the problem is that it's too low. 

Works well in the NHL but there is disparity because of different taxes escpecially between Canadian and US teams.  And big market teams are more popular because they are big market. Can't regulate that. 

[OutByEaster?]

I've always said that salary caps are incredibly difficult to impose and monitor, but any fool can count players.

Restrict every Premier league club to 22 senior pros and as many under 20's as they like - allow them to send two over 18's out on loan and insist they must release anyone who doesn't fit into that squad.