STO Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 If we are to give some of the teams in the top six a bloody nose, we need a more ruthless striker and another midfielder. I'm not sure who those players are but I reckon Gerrard thinks the same about the midfielder particularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, nick76 said: Why? While it might be better for us short term, I think the development long term, another full competitive football season for him would be better than 15 minutes here and there for us. It depends how much game time he gets, if just 15 minutes here and there I think it’s better he goes out on loan until January at least, if more time then keep him. Because I think getting used to the PL will stand him in better stead next season. It also gives us a chance to assess whether he does have the skills that we hope that he does against PL defenders. I'm not sure him scoring 15 goals in the Championship means that we'd be much further on in terms of assessing his ability. I also think him just training alongside Couts / Emi2 will improve his positioning / thinking / close control / etc more than maybe playing in a successful Championship team who play a more direct style of football. It is probably a slightly borderline call at the moment (1 month ago I would probably agree entirely that he needs another season on loan) but based on pre-season he is the striker who is making the most of the opportunities that come his way. Based purely on pre-season form (and yes I appreciate we are only 3 matches in and it is mainly about building fitness, etc, etc) if we are 0-0 with 10 minutes left against Bournemouth then Archer is the striker who so far would be the most likely to fashion a chance. The other two are playing catch up. Even if they get ahead of them (which let's be honest they should) if one then gets injured I would be much more confident with Archer on the bench than KD, or trying Bailey or Bertie up top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 16 minutes ago, nick76 said: Why? While it might be better for us short term, I think the development long term, another full competitive football season for him would be better than 15 minutes here and there for us. It depends how much game time he gets, if just 15 minutes here and there I think it’s better he goes out on loan until January at least, if more time then keep him. The highlighted bit is important for sure. But also if Archer goes out on loan then we don't really have anyone putting pressure on Ings and Watkins. They would pretty much be guaranteed to either start (if we play 2 up top) or both play (if we play with 2 x 10s) every match regardless of form. If nothing else then Archer would be keeping them both honest. Whilst that might not be better for him than regular minutes in the champ - he would always be 1 injury away from being on the bench in the PL and maybe coming on and grabbing a goal to win us the match and stake a claim for a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 21 minutes ago, nick76 said: Why? While it might be better for us short term, I think the development long term, another full competitive football season for him would be better than 15 minutes here and there for us. It depends how much game time he gets, if just 15 minutes here and there I think it’s better he goes out on loan until January at least, if more time then keep him. PS - I still hope that we have a new striker on our shopping list who is more in tune with the style of football we want to play. If we were to sign someone then I think the question is whether Ings / Ollie would get enough opportunities as first / second change strikers or whether we should try and cash in on one of them and keep Archer as third choice. In that scenario Archer would probably expect to get far fewer minutes on the pitch. So the balance would be whether we are better losing more money (wages and reducing market value) on an experienced striker being third choice this season in the hope that Archer is out playing more often and seeing his value increase (ability wise and financially) ahead of next season. Slightly more borderline case that to an extent depends on our preferred formation this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farlz Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 I personally think top 7/8 is delusional. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messi11 Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 On 23/07/2022 at 10:01, Farlz said: I personally think top 7/8 is delusional. Why is it tho? We have Coutinho, Bailey and Buendia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 On 23/07/2022 at 12:01, Farlz said: I personally think top 7/8 is delusional. Which 8 teams have better squads than ours? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messi11 Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea have better squads than us. Spurs and Arsenal, Manchester united all on paper are better. We have better squad than Brighton, Wolves, Leicester, West Ham, So we should be fighting for 7th and 8th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 56 minutes ago, lexicon said: Which 8 teams have better squads than ours? The top 8 that finished above us? Leicester have more injuries than we did, had a poor season by their recent standards, made SF of europa, had Vardy out for half the season and still finished 8th. We played three games in the domestic cups. Different with us as feels like we need our core players fit for pretty much whole season e.g results would likely dip if we lost Kamara for 3-4 months. West Ham is more debatable but we haven't finished above them for ages and Rice on his own elevates them up a few places, he's their Grealish tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 23 minutes ago, messi11 said: Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea have better squads than us. Spurs and Arsenal, Manchester united all on paper are better. We have better squad than Brighton, Wolves, Leicester, West Ham, So we should be fighting for 7th and 8th We don't have a better squad than Leicester until we actually prove it on the grass. Even at mid 30s Vardy would comfortably be our best striker. Maddison had a pretty good return to form last year, 12 prem goals and 8 assists. Will be happy if Coutinho/Buendia get that combined tbh. Likes of Fofana and James Justin are very good young players who missed pretty much all of season injured. Tielemans is still their player and better than Luiz/McGinn. Squad is better as they still finished above us despite lengthy european run and even more injuries than we did in key areas. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) 9th 7th/8th if we sign a couple more top players ST & CM That first half performance against Man U......still keeps raising its ugly head. Until we can eradicate that standing off trait......I don't see further than midtable. Edited July 24, 2022 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, TRO said: 9th 7th/8th if we sign a couple more top players ST & CM That first half performance against Man U......still keeps raising its ugly head. Until we can eradicate that standing off trait......I don't see further than midtable. I agree with you TRO, except I would like to see us put all our available cash into buying one top quality CM partner for Kamara. I hope that a rock solid CM duo with quality technical and physical ability would allow our attackers and striker/s to anticipate good service, rather than believe we'll yet again lose the ball due to sloppy build up play out of midfield. Our inability to press consistently when we're out of possession and pass accurately when we have the ball, compromises us as an attacking force. A rock solid CM pairing would also cut down on the wobbly defending that we are still seeing. Lacking that final perfect round peg in the remaining unfilled CM round hole will make 7/8th unobtainable imo. I see tenth as our most likely finishing position with our current squad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 8 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said: I agree with you TRO, except I would like to see us put all our available cash into buying one top quality CM partner for Kamara. I hope that a rock solid CM duo with quality technical and physical ability would allow our attackers and striker/s to anticipate good service, rather than believe we'll yet again lose the ball due to sloppy build up play out of midfield. Our inability to press consistently when we're out of possession and pass accurately when we have the ball, compromises us as an attacking force. A rock solid CM pairing would also cut down on the wobbly defending that we are still seeing. Lacking that final perfect round peg in the remaining unfilled CM round hole will make 7/8th unobtainable imo. I see tenth as our most likely finishing position with our current squad. I have to agree. As for the pressing, I don't think we have the athleticism in there to do it.....we do it in bits and dabs....we are a bit wooden at times. Pressing/ closing down also results in winning richochets, which can start sorties....how often does it result in loose balls being picked up and attacks starting. Our standing off, limits our attacking prowess, and limits our ball winning/ recovery. After losing Jack, we are still short of players who can stay on the ball and allow runners to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catanzaro Posted July 24, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 24, 2022 One more win and four more draws than last year and we would be there or there about.. so 7th seems a reasonable target in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 2 hours ago, catanzaro said: One more win and four more draws than last year and we would be there or there about.. so 7th seems a reasonable target in my opinion 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Looking at where our PL goals will be scored, I predict: Watkin/Ings/Archer: 25 total Buendia/Coutinho/Bailey: 14 total Luiz/McGinn/Ramsey/Sanson/Kamara: 10 total Cash/Digne: 7 total Costa/Mings/Konsa/Chambers/Hause: 6 total So 62- 10 more than last season. I guess I’m hoping Archer and Bailey , a full season of Countinho and Luiz played further forward help to increase the goals. And Kamara and Carlos help reduce the goals conceded. Should see us a few places up the table but I can’t see us above 9th really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Not as optimistic as some I am afraid. We might just about finish in the top half, 9/10th. It will be the usual 6, plus West Ham, Leicester and Newcastle will be tough to finish ahead of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted July 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 25, 2022 I think we'll be do well to finish in the top half really. Our form is too patchy and i'm not sure we've improved our squad enough this summer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 18 minutes ago, PieFacE said: I think we'll be do well to finish in the top half really. Our form is too patchy and i'm not sure we've improved our squad enough this summer. Yep, this is where I am at. Hopefully still some more quality incomings to help us. I have a feeling this is going to be long frustrating season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I was screwing in the match thread first half Sat. BUT, what was really evident in the second half is that our squad depth is now looking deep. Even the kids are looking accomplished and not far off ready to step up full time. I think we have a better squad and possibly starting 11 than Leicester, Wolves, Southampton, Palace, Brighton and any of the others looking to break the top 8-10. I think for the first time in a long long time I felt we had a better 11 and bench than Utd on Sat. It's arguable I suppose but the gap isn't that big on paper and looking at the personnel. One thing is for certain. Gerrard is not going get much sympathy from the fans or powers that be if we aren't pushing into the top half this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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