Steven Gerrard

[nick76]

Just now, Laughable Chimp said:

Are we gonna say this again in 10 year later when we go through another bad patch?

 

[duke313]

How long will SG be given?  Not saying he should be sacked, but if we are in the same boat this time next season floating about mid table after spending another £100m+.

[villa4europe]

26 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

My god, how long are we gonna use this excuse? I've been hearing people say this from season 1 which tbf, was a valid point back then. Now after hundreds of millions of pounds invested with a team that has brought in players to replace players that themselves were brought in to replace our promotion-chasing players, it gets a bit silly to think that we're still being chained by us being promoted through the playoffs.Are we gonna say this again in 10 year later when we go through another bad patch?

edit: I may have come off to harsh, I apologize. Especially since you weren't technically trying to excuse our performances, just explain them.

I think it's true though, how many of these players are good enough for a European push? not many 

We have a fair few gap fillers and this is a mid table squad on a mid table wage budget realistically assembled for mid table cost... Sat in mid table 

Its not being promoted via the playoffs that's the problem, it's being promoted with a midfield of mcginn, Hourihane, lansbury, jedinak and whelan that is the problem 

The hundreds of millions means nothing 

[Zatman]

33 minutes ago, nick76 said:

But that’s preempting something not based on anything tangible.  We’ve signed Coutinho on loan whose a quality player.  Aside from that the press have linked us with players of Liverpool connection but with the press we don’t know how true that is or just the usual lazy journalism like they do with any manager and past connections.

Of the ones being linked, Suarez was a elite goalscorer coming to the end of his career.  Could he do a job for us for a season or two, who knows.  Is he better than Ollie or Ings?  I think he’d fit Gerrard’s system than Ollie and maybe if they have high hopes for Archer, giving him another season or so to develop may a wise decision to bring in an older player that will then leave.  Can Suarez cut the mustard is the question.

The other is Joe Gomez, I have to say I know very little about him but he’s good with his feet unlike our two.  Was highly thought of before injury at Liverpool but I have no idea on him.

I don’t mind the Liverpool connections if there is a plan behind it and they are quality.  I think Coutinho was a quality move because he’s a real talent that was in the wilderness and we can nurture that back.  Like a stock where we can buy at at the dip before it climbs back to its 200 day average.

Problem is Suarez can barely move in Spain which is a lower tempo than the Premier League 

The 3rd Liverpool link is the scary one and its growing speed and thats Wijnaldum who has been one of the worst signings of the season 

[VillaFaninLondon]

19 hours ago, TRO said:

You keep pedling that line.....What Tactical flexibilty are you looking for with a squad that lacks variation in type.?......in cricket terms we can change the bowler, but not change the bowling.

The midfield is all the same....the wingers are all the same, none are effective or stand out.....The 2 stikers have everyone divided.....what are these magical changes the manager is denying us of?

With the squad, he has....what do you think he should do? that prompts you to call out his tactical flexibility in to question....He has 2 well reputed coaches to help him too....is Michael Beale clueless too?

You could pick this team from the squad, with a hat pin, for what its worth.

did you baulk, when he brought in Coutinho and Digne?....No because they are talented players, depite the questions relating to, was they priority......but we have enough talent, what we need is something else and he needs the summer to rectify it.

He has an army of recruitment Staff and a DoF, so I am sure, just like with Dean, its not just one mans decision.....I would guess a committee is responsible for their input.

He has bought 1 player and loaned another, and you call him a cheque book manager, thats a bit rich.....Shall we take the safe route and but exclusively from division 2 or everyone elses cast offs......you seem to want your cake and eat it.

Its a gamble and the better you are at talent spotting and blending, the less of a gamble it becomes....we could be another Everton, sure....but its the nature of the beast, what are the alternatives?

I would think the top teams have a few classic flops they would care to keep stumm about...so lets not get overly cautious.

I'm sorry but this bit is just plain wrong. The wingers are not all the same - Bailey is quick and direct, Buendia is a hard worker who likes to get on the ball and play it in behind, Coutinho is a magician with a great shot on him, Traore is an unpredictable maverick. They all have different attributes, it's just that most of the time 3 out of the 4 are on the bench because Gerrard doesn't want or know how to use them together so he just relies on having Coutinho there on his own to make something happen.

 

I agree on the CM but that's where his lack of flexibility comes in - 90% of the time he plays that 4-3-2-1 formation with no width whatsoever apart from the FBs and you simply cannot play that system with our midfield as it won't work. When he's played 4-1-2-1-2 we have had better results but again we have very little width using that formation either apart from the FBs. 

 

Let's look at who has performed since Gerrard has come in based on their previous season's performances or their performances at international level - only Cash and Ramsey have really performed above what we expected since he came in and most of them have underperformed (they were under Smith too but that's why he was sacked) - Buendia still hasn't really delivered on a consistent basis, Bailey is still in the doldrums, Ings hasn't hit his Southampton form, Watkins has been nowhere near last season, McGinn, Luiz, Mings, Konsa, even Martinez all below what they were last season since Gerrard came in.

 

Anyway what you seem to be saying is it doesn't matter what the results are for the rest of the season, these aren't his players, doesn't matter if we slip further down the table and keep losing each week because Gerrard can't do anything about it apparently. With that philosophy makes you wonder why we even have a manager in the first place then. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

I hope to god we sign two central midfielders. 

Some people reckon if we lost Luiz and Chukwuemeka, but bring in Phillips and Bissouma, it will have been an abject failure

[nick76]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Problem is Suarez can barely move in Spain which is a lower tempo than the Premier League 

The 3rd Liverpool link is the scary one and its growing speed and thats Wijnaldum who has been one of the worst signings of the season 

Genuine question:

who do you think we should be after?  

You aren’t keen on anybody we seem to be linked with so who do you think we should be interested in?

[Zatman]

8 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Genuine question:

who do you think we should be after?  

You aren’t keen on anybody we seem to be linked with so who do you think we should be interested in?

If im honest a manager that plays with wingers and we would be in a better place. 

As for starting players we should have went for Hickey over Digne, Bentancur obviously. New contracts for Luiz and Carney. Sanson is a player as well but McGinn is undroppable.

In midfield we could do worse than bringing a player like Gueye back on a 2 year deal while Tim develops and is gettable and superior to Bissouma or Phillips. As for centre back its a poor market to find a decent one next to Mings, we should spend big if can find the right player

We probably dont need a new striker either with Archer and Davis coming back

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

32 minutes ago, Zatman said:

If im honest a manager that plays with wingers and we would be in a better place. 

As for starting players we should have went for Hickey over Digne, Bentancur obviously. New contracts for Luiz and Carney. Sanson is a player as well but McGinn is undroppable.

In midfield we could do worse than bringing a player like Gueye back on a 2 year deal while Tim develops and is gettable and superior to Bissouma or Phillips. As for centre back its a poor market to find a decent one next to Mings, we should spend big if can find the right player

We probably dont need a new striker either with Archer and Davis coming back

I agree with alot of this post.

However you say " New contracts for Luiz and Carney " as if they haven't been offered contracts, and that them not signing new contracts, is also the managers fault.

They obviously never signed them under previous either

Luiz and Carney are the ones not wanting to sign the contracts, when will some people ingest this?

Edited April 4, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

If im honest a manager that plays with wingers and we would be in a better place. 

As for starting players we should have went for Hickey over Digne, Bentancur obviously. New contracts for Luiz and Carney. Sanson is a player as well but McGinn is undroppable.

In midfield we could do worse than bringing a player like Gueye back on a 2 year deal while Tim develops and is gettable and superior to Bissouma or Phillips. As for centre back its a poor market to find a decent one next to Mings, we should spend big if can find the right player

We probably dont need a new striker either with Archer and Davis coming back

Thanks.

I’m on a different page to you on some of these.

I think Digne is a great signing, I’m a big fan of him and great stats, I do like Hickey.  It seems like we didn’t really have a chance with Bentancur.  Can’t disagree with Luiz and Carney but my gut says that’s more their decision than Villa’s.  Sanson/McGinn I could go either way.

I’m open t DM, as long as he’s quality and I don’t mind paying big money if needed.  Seems a big issue for us to recruit for.  I’m not sure Gueye would drop to us.

I definitely think we need a new striker.  Davis hopefully is sold in the summer but I’m hopeful of Archer but still a bit early to know with so I don’t want to put all my eggs in that basket so if the right striker is available, sell Watkins and buy a striker.

[useless]

Not sure what this obsession is with playing 'wingers' I hate to break it to people but most clubs that play with a front three have that front three playing 'narrow', it's not some unusual tactic that Gerrard has introduced, it's not even if we have wingers anyway, Buendia and Coutinho are more like No.10s, and Bailey and Traore more like inside forwards, those aren't the kind of players you want staying out wide and having to track back.

[AVFCDAN]

I'm onboard with Gerrard but there's no doubt this season has been average at best. We've lost so many games and pretty much lost every game that you would expect us to. If success is now measured as not going down then yes we've had a good season but by nearly every other measure its been pretty dreadful.

Its frustrating because we have an entire team of internationals pretty much and players who has been very successful at other clubs but its still not coming together for Aston Villa. If we go into next season with more or less the same team i can't see how our league position is going to improve. We've been well beaten by every decent team and a few relegation candidates this season. I cant see what we are working towards. 

If we are planning on spending big again in the summer there simply has to be some measurable improvement to our quality of football and league position.

[useless]

Mistake Gerrard has made tactically is thinking he can allow the fullbacks to bomb on whilst also playing McGinn and Ramsey in midfield, two very attack minded midfielders, Liverpool play a similar system allowing their fullbacks to play like wingers but they can do that because they play with a defensive minded midfielders. But the front three playing as they do is normal, truth be told probably not too different to how they played under Smith, or if Smith was our head honcho now he'd be using Coutinho and Buendia in a similar way.

[duke313]

7 minutes ago, useless said:

Not sure what this obsession is with playing 'wingers' I hate to break it to people but most clubs that play with a front three have that front three playing 'narrow', it's not some unusual tactic that Gerrard has introduced, it's not even if we have wingers anyway, Buendia and Coutinho are more like No.10s, and Bailey and Traore more like inside forwards, those aren't the kind of players you want staying out wide and having to track back.

I think when most people say 'winger's they mean it as wide players in general, not that they are traditional out and out wingers.  Bailey and Traore are traditionally wide players, Buendia can play wide or as a 10.

[Jareth]

2 hours ago, duke313 said:

How long will SG be given?  Not saying he should be sacked, but if we are in the same boat this time next season floating about mid table after spending another £100m+.

I see NSWE building an even more expensive squad over the summer and if SG cannot deliver 'continuous progress' then he may not be in charge come the end of next season. No excuses at that point. 

[NeilS]

14 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

I don't think that's fair. They aren't Champions League players but lack of organisation is much more an issue than mental strength.

 

Thanks for the reply, I think we agree on most parts other than the above section, and that is probably down to my definition of mental strength. The lack of organisation spans two seperate managers over this season and the second half of last, which I would categorise a lacking mental strength. I don't mean a lack of trying, as I do feel the players keep going until the end and are a decent bunch. What I do mean is the lack of concentration which in turn leads to the lack of organisation as players drift out of position, and the lack of intensity from the start in some matches, there is also a panic that sets in if we make a mistake or concede goal as players lose their heads. In the past we could rely on Jack to retain possesion or win a foul to break up opposition momentum, and I think that masked a few deficiencies amongst the others.

[HalfTimePost]

2 hours ago, nick76 said:

But that’s preempting something not based on anything tangible.  We’ve signed Coutinho on loan whose a quality player.  Aside from that the press have linked us with players of Liverpool connection but with the press we don’t know how true that is or just the usual lazy journalism like they do with any manager and past connections.

Of the ones being linked, Suarez was a elite goalscorer coming to the end of his career.  Could he do a job for us for a season or two, who knows.  Is he better than Ollie or Ings?  I think he’d fit Gerrard’s system than Ollie and maybe if they have high hopes for Archer, giving him another season or so to develop may a wise decision to bring in an older player that will then leave.  Can Suarez cut the mustard is the question.

The other is Joe Gomez, I have to say I know very little about him but he’s good with his feet unlike our two.  Was highly thought of before injury at Liverpool but I have no idea on him.

I don’t mind the Liverpool connections if there is a plan behind it and they are quality.  I think Coutinho was a quality move because he’s a real talent that was in the wilderness and we can nurture that back.  Like a stock where we can buy at at the dip before it climbs back to its 200 day average.

I completely agree. Im not going to lie, whilst I may be apprehensive and may not entirely agree with this hypothetical strategy, if we're sat here on September 1st and we've signed Luis Suarez, Joe Gomez, Philippe Coutinho and splashed £60m on Kalvin Phillips I'll be buzzing for the season ahead.

[HalfTimePost]

3 hours ago, duke313 said:

How long will SG be given?  Not saying he should be sacked, but if we are in the same boat this time next season floating about mid table after spending another £100m+.

I think he'll be given all of next season unless we look like getting relegated, which won't happen . If a change is needed it wont happen till the summer

[AshVilla]

I give us one more big window of spending before the owners become disillusioned and pull the plug they can't just keep throwing money away.

If we don't make the step next season they may be content with us just maintaining being in the prem every season and that will be that.

Seen nothing to suggest Gerrard is the man to take us to the next level and someone we should be pinning our hopes on.

[hippo]

26 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

I give us one more big window of spending before the owners become disillusioned and pull the plug they can't just keep throwing money away.

If we don't make the step next season they may be content with us just maintaining being in the prem every season and that will be that.

Seen nothing to suggest Gerrard is the man to take us to the next level and someone we should be pinning our hopes on.

Yep - the clean up after Stevie G is going to take some doing. A load of players with little resale value on massive contracts , all brought to play in the narrow formation.

Its sickening to watch all the progress of last 3 years squandered.