Crimes of History. A reckoning?

[TheAuthority]

Will we in the West ever fully recognize the crimes of colonialism and manage to build a more equitable society? There is more awareness than ever in my lifetime of systemic racism and how the legacy of slavery and colonization has scarred countries and economies, leaving an un-level playing field for so many.

At the same time there is a counter movement of people who have always benefited from this inequitable system and are fighting back. The threat of white nationalist terrorism has never been higher in the US, and the attacks of Anders Breivik in Norway & Brenton Tarrant in New Zealand show that it is not limited to these shores. These terrorist have quoted each other and other racially motivated shootings in their 'manifestos.'

Is it necessary to recognize our history so we can move forward? Should we just bumble along as we have been hoping for small incremental change along the way? How do we handle those on the right who believe we are already in a cold war between whites and muslims/people of color. 

[choffer]

5 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

Is it necessary to recognize our history so we can move forward? Should we just bumble along as we have been hoping for small incremental change along the way? How do we handle those on the right who believe we are already in a cold war between whites and muslims/people of color. 

I’d say it’s imperative to acknowledge the wrongs of the past but it’s always going to be a power play. Sweeping generalisation but those with the power have often obtained (or inherited) it as a result of taking advantage of others. Their mindset will always be that they (or their ancestors) earned it and possession is nine tenths of the law. 

I do worry though that the world is becoming more and more polarised and the fight for indigenous rights will only reinforce another divide. Such a complex issue though. 
 

(Recommended reading on the subject - Decolonising Methodologies by Professor Linda Tuhiwai Smith.)

[Rodders]

education, then the feckless thugs ( see also in non terroristy ways, groups like the Restore Trust **** who think the NT is too wokey: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/13/national-trust-warns-of-threat-from-ideological-campaign-waged-against-it )

absolute **** cretins. 

I cannot stand the idea that because history was written by some bellend winners in the past that somehow it is this immoveable behemoth that brooks no revision, no updating and reviewing as we change. 

**** racist statues, **** colonialism and **** all the mewling quim pricks who have a fit any time someone criticises their beloved, and revoltingly racist Churchill.

 

There's a lot of fingers in ears about the entrenched consequences of wealth being hoarded and appropriated by the powerful in the past. People will agree with the statement that actions have consequences, but apply that logic to industrialists and empire ruling ****, and suddenly "it was different then". absolute **** cock sockets.

[choffer]

We could make a start by taking all the things in the British Museum that were stolen and returning them to source. Of course, we’d have to work out what we were going to do with a completely empty building in Bloomsbury but I’d be ok with that. 

[bickster]

23 minutes ago, choffer said:

We could make a start by taking all the things in the British Museum that were stolen and returning them to source. Of course, we’d have to work out what we were going to do with a completely empty building in Bloomsbury but I’d be ok with that. 

Put actual British things in it, no name change required

You could even build a dungeon in the basement for a deviant British behaviour section and have a live fish with gravy eater in there

[choffer]

46 minutes ago, bickster said:

Put actual British things in it, no name change required

Let’s get the Elgin Marbles back to Scotland where they belong.

 

[tinker]

Blaming  'the West' for the actions of a few greedy rulers of the day is a  dangerous game.   At the same time slaves were being dragged from Africa, children from the West were working down mines and the peasants of the day were ordered to fight wars in foreign lands for the good of a few rich rulers.

 

[chrisp65]

There have been many empires all around the globe that have relied on slavery and persecution of others. That have gained land to gain wealth, at the expense of others. That have driven others out, or absorbed them and snubbed out their cultures.

The Aksumite Empire is a personal favourite. Much of their wealth and influence came from the trading of slaves. They were African and already trading in slaves for hundreds of years before the Norman French Duke of Normandy iimposed his will, his law and his religion on the Anglo Saxons.

I will not apologise for selected historic slavery. I will not apologise for the Irish Famine. I will not expect an apology from Normandy, I will not expect an apology for King Edward’s reign of terror. Doodlebugs were not the responsibility of Germans born in 1985.

I will do my very best to treat everyone fairly and equally, to understand privilege and to try and counter it. I will always be receptive to education.

 

 

[Lichfield Dean]

6 hours ago, choffer said:

Let’s get the Elgin Marbles back to Scotland where they belong.

 

I remember being dismayed when I learnt they weren't actually marbles.

[Mandy Lifeboats]

I find it very hard to look back on UK history and ignore the atrocities we have committed,  the wealth we've plundered or the profit we've made from exploiting others.  We had the biggest empire and we didn't get that by treating people fairly.  

I can see the argument that we can't hold the people of today in any way responsible for things that happened before them.  But I can also see that we are still profiting for those things and we should put things right if we can.  

If you ever get chance visit the British Museum and wonder at the exhibits.  But also take the time to read how those items were obtained. 

I see no reason  to keep statues of slave traders who built a few schools for the UK poor.  But I have no idea what we should do with statues of Churchill.  

I see no reason to keep the Elgin Marbles.  But I have no idea what we should do with the massive diamonds in the crown jewels.  

The only thing I am sure of is that we should learn from history and let history evolve.  

Edited October 14, 2021 by Mandy Lifeboats
Spelling mishsteaks

[Mandy Lifeboats]

I'll never forgive the Romans for invading us.  

What did the Romans ever do for us?  

[Xela]

I think @chrisp65 sums it up in a far more erudite way than I could. 

Go back far enough in history and everyone looks shit. As long as we learn and try to be better people going forward, that'll do for me. 

Although i'm willing to accept reparations from any Romans, Vikings, Normans or Barbary pirates if they want to transfer the funds to my offshore account. 

[Mandy Lifeboats]

7 hours ago, choffer said:

Let’s get the Elgin Marbles back to Scotland where they belong.

 

Best post ever.  

[TheAuthority]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58910794

Quote

A deadly bow and arrow attack in Norway which left five people dead appears to have been an act of terror, Norway's security service (PST) said.

The suspect, a 37-year-old Danish citizen named Espen Andersen Brathen, had converted to Islam and there were fears he had been radicalised.

 

Another loner radicalized by the internet. Happens on both sides.

[fruitvilla]

12 hours ago, choffer said:

We could make a start by taking all the things in the British Museum that were stolen and returning them to source

Yes we want nothing but the best British atoms on display in British museums.

[sidcow]

13 hours ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

I'll never forgive the Romans for invading us.  

What did the Romans ever do for us?  

Big noses. 

[villa4europe]

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war crimes 

Nothing but chest puffing to show the Russians and gain post war positioning, didn't need to do it, they killed civilians for politics which amounted to a pissing contest, the whole cold war era doesn't sit well anymore, especially in the light of what they were doing at home during the same time*

Didn't work either, what the teachers don't like to tell us in school is that the Japanese didn't surrender after those bombs, they surrendered after Russia invaded Sakhalin 

You can put in operation millennium and operation meeting house in there too

History is written by the victors

* something else they won't like - America are economical colonisers and they've got one of the biggest and most powerful empires the world has ever seen 

The important thing about the cold war is that sense of fear hasn't gone away, they've just moved it on from the reds to a new enemy, they still want the American public to be scared

Edited October 15, 2021 by villa4europe

[Xann]

What's done is done. We need to take on board what's happened and why in the context of the time? Then move on.

To successfully move on we need to address the dividers and conquerors of the present, that crave yet more money and power. They are employing ever more sophisticated techniques of mass psychology to serve that agenda.

Educate future generations about managing base instincts that served as survival functions in our ancestors, *but are now being used to exploit us.

Recognise that certain characteristics, such as psychopathic traits, make for terrible leaders. Especially in a World where we're swarming dangerously.

 

Alas we're further away from healing rifts and hurt than we were a few years ago, and the vile press just fan the flames.

 

* eg. There's a million Turks coming! Quick, vote Brexit!

[Mandy Lifeboats]

The story below is the official story of how the Benin Bronzes came to be in the British Museum.  

1896    Merchants from the Kingdom of Benin decline to supply the British with Palm Oil for the price offered.     They are supported by the ruler of Benin.  

January 1897   The UK agreed that a "Trade Mission" should visit Benin.  It was actually 250 fully armed African Mercenaries masquerading as a drum and pipe band along with a handful of British "Trading Agents".   Their intention was to occupy the country and install a more friendly ruler.   The plan was discovered and the invading army was slaughtered before they could take their rifles out of their trombone cases.   

February 1897    The UK invaded in order to punish the savages that had slaughtered our innocent trade mission.  They slaughtered thousands and literally wiped Benin off the map by making it part of Nigeria.   We scorched the earth.  

We then decided that Benin must pay for the cost of killing all those savages.  Using official figures 2500 treasures were plundered and sold.  That only reflects items that were plundered and sold at official auctions.  Much more was simply taken away.   40% of the official plunder ended up in the British Museum.  

2021 "The British Museum is fully committed to developing an online tool to DIGITALLY reunite historical objects that illuminate Benin."   

Aren't we kind. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Mandy Lifeboats
Incorrect date.

[TheAuthority]

50 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

February 1987    The UK invaded in order to punish the savages that had slaughtered our innocent trade mission.  They slaughtered thousands and literally wiped Benin off the map by making it part of Nigeria.   We scorched the earth.  

We then decided that Benin must pay for the cost of killing all those savages.  Using official figures 2500 treasures were plundered and sold.  That only reflects items that were plundered and sold at official auctions.  Much more was simply taken away.   40% of the official plunder ended up in the British Museum.  

2021 "The British Museum is fully committed to developing an online tool to DIGITALLY reunite historical objects that illuminate Benin."   

Aren't we kind. 

Wow and Live Aid was only a couple of years before too