Leon Bailey

[MaVilla]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I'm not sure what due dilligence was employed in the past, with some of our signings

clearly youtube clips....

[gwi1890]

58 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

There were people on here who genuinely thought he would rip up the league when we signed him.

There was no reason not to, he was one of the most promising wingers in Europe.  Otavio, Goncalves are names that are thrown about often here and people rave about them but could easily turn out to be another Leon Bailey.

[Risso]

3 hours ago, Pinebro said:

There were people on here who genuinely thought he would rip up the league when we signed him.

Well of course there were. There's the natural optimism that comes with most signings, and also the fact that most of us aren't European football experts and wouldn't have seen anything of him other than Youtube clips. You could probably make a decent video of his time here, but the three minutes of good stuff would literally represent the entirety of his positive moments, and would miss out the 99% of the time when he fails to beat a defender, pulls up injured or loses the ball cheaply.

[Tom13]

2 hours ago, av1 said:

The summer is going to be huge. 

Biggest since summer 19.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, lexicon said:

You didn't question Gerrard and his potential signings going into last pre-season but are nervy about Emery   

Maybe, it takes time to reflect, before declaring my doubt.

I am nervy, inc Gerrard Signings......I am happy with Kamara.....need to see more of Carlos......not happy with Olsen, and have very mixed feelings on Digne. Coutinho is talented, but questionable application, Dendoncker and Chambers , rotation utility players, not first team for me.

on Deans Signings/ or whoever.... 20 signings, spending 320m......10 still feature in our first team,10 don't .....make of that what you will, OK I guess. I suspect the Jack money was the biggest doubt.

My point is.....Unless we significantly raise the bar, (and that also means players with a diverse amoury of attributes, not just the same as what we already have) we will continue to have dips in form and difficult runs, to match the great ones.

The team needs to be more rounded, to meet All the eventualities of this league.....i.e its clear that when an opposing team wants to play and open up, we are game for it.......when a team wants to defend, and press us, we can faulter, and left wanting

We need to bring players in who can help us be more rounded and not so single dimensional.

Our team has worked wonders since UE's tenure.....but we have also shown, we are limited under certain conditions, too.

I am pinning my hopes on a much better manager, up grading the squad, to meet those needs,  but I don't know definitively who is involved in that process, it might not be, just UE....but I will wait and see.

 

[lexicon]

51 minutes ago, TRO said:

Maybe, it takes time to reflect, before declaring my doubt.

I am nervy, inc Gerrard Signings......I am happy with Kamara.....need to see more of Carlos......not happy with Olsen, and have very mixed feelings on Digne. Coutinho is talented, but questionable application, Dendoncker and Chambers , rotation utility players, not first team for me.

on Deans Signings/ or whoever.... 20 signings, spending 320m......10 still feature in our first team,10 don't .....make of that what you will, OK I guess. I suspect the Jack money was the biggest doubt.

My point is.....Unless we significantly raise the bar, (and that also means players with a diverse amoury of attributes, not just the same as what we already have) we will continue to have dips in form and difficult runs, to match the great ones.

The team needs to be more rounded, to meet All the eventualities of this league.....i.e its clear that when an opposing team wants to play and open up, we are game for it.......when a team wants to defend, and press us, we can faulter, and left wanting

We need to bring players in who can help us be more rounded and not so single dimensional.

Our team has worked wonders since UE's tenure.....but we have also shown, we are limited under certain conditions, too.

I am pinning my hopes on a much better manager, up grading the squad, to meet those needs,  but I don't know definitively who is involved in that process, it might not be, just UE....but I will wait and see.

 

Every team bar Man City goes through those things. Of course we're focused on improving and we literally couldn't have got a more qualified candidate in than Emery to lead that change, not to mention we've almost secured the guy that turned around the basket case that was Barcelona and is regarded as one of the best DoFs going. 

[TRO]

17 hours ago, lexicon said:

Every team bar Man City goes through those things. Of course we're focused on improving and we literally couldn't have got a more qualified candidate in than Emery to lead that change, not to mention we've almost secured the guy that turned around the basket case that was Barcelona and is regarded as one of the best DoFs going. 

Encouraging, so we will see how it pans out.

[KentVillan]

18 hours ago, TRO said:

Maybe, it takes time to reflect, before declaring my doubt.

I am nervy, inc Gerrard Signings......I am happy with Kamara.....need to see more of Carlos......not happy with Olsen, and have very mixed feelings on Digne. Coutinho is talented, but questionable application, Dendoncker and Chambers , rotation utility players, not first team for me.

on Deans Signings/ or whoever.... 20 signings, spending 320m......10 still feature in our first team,10 don't .....make of that what you will, OK I guess. I suspect the Jack money was the biggest doubt.

My point is.....Unless we significantly raise the bar, (and that also means players with a diverse amoury of attributes, not just the same as what we already have) we will continue to have dips in form and difficult runs, to match the great ones.

The team needs to be more rounded, to meet All the eventualities of this league.....i.e its clear that when an opposing team wants to play and open up, we are game for it.......when a team wants to defend, and press us, we can faulter, and left wanting

We need to bring players in who can help us be more rounded and not so single dimensional.

Our team has worked wonders since UE's tenure.....but we have also shown, we are limited under certain conditions, too.

I am pinning my hopes on a much better manager, up grading the squad, to meet those needs,  but I don't know definitively who is involved in that process, it might not be, just UE....but I will wait and see.

 

Good post, although I think Dean’s overall record on signings has turned out to be pretty respectable given the situation he was in and how many areas of the pitch needed quality.

Emery has so far really only brought in Moreno, who has seemed a very good signing.

So I think the summer could be a good one.

Also agree with you that we have one system that works very well against expansive attacking football, but need a way to handle that other type of fixture when teams are willing to concede possession.

I’m optimistic that Emery will sort it. Upgrading Bailey will be a big part of that.

Edited May 10, 2023 by KentVillan

[Delphinho123]

I have him down as a better (not by much) player than Traore. Both need to be gone in the Summer though. Can't see there being many takers.

[MrBlack]

4 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

I have him down as a better (not by much) player than Traore. Both need to be gone in the Summer though. Can't see there being many takers.

Bailey is marginally better over 90 minutes. Traoré seems to be the better impact sub. 

Sadly, neither seem to be good enough for where we are trying to get to.

If I was keeping one I'd go for the sub that might change something if they came on, over the one that does something, but not enough over 90 minutes. 

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Good post, although I think Dean’s overall record on signings has turned out to be pretty respectable given the situation he was in and how many areas of the pitch needed quality.

Emery has so far really only brought in Moreno, who has seemed a very good signing.

So I think the summer could be a good one.

Also agree with you that we have one system that works very well against expansive attacking football, but need a way to handle that other type of fixture when teams are willing to concede possession.

I’m optimistic that Emery will sort it. Upgrading Bailey will be a big part of that.

I will be very surprised if he don't.....my doubt comes from him being able to sign his first choice recruits.....and I am also unsure how many other folk have a say in the process.

I am cautiously optimistic, but I have been like that before......I have to say, I am surprised that previous Managers created a situation, where Tyrone was the only outfield players over 6ft.......El Ghazi was but didn't act like one.

Height is not the be all and end all.....but if you haven't got it, in balance, Aerial balls can prove to be a real nuisance and a welcome weapon......Goals change games, and such a simple way in for an opponent, is enough to put us on a back foot.

We need to be able to deal with all sorts of games, not just some.

[TRO]

I have no time, for ineffectual players.....they then become passengers.

Edited May 10, 2023 by TRO

[tinker]

Bailey is a limited player, offensively, like Bert, they both want to cut in do their thing and its far to easy to defend against.

From a defensive point of view they are both pretty limited in the challenging/tacking department, they will close down but not effectively for 90 minutes. They also don't keep possession well enough or know when to pass  and keep possession, they take to many high risks with poor returns for a possession based team.

You have to keep possession or have players who can gain possession in the team, ATM we have to many players , Bailey,  Bert, Buendia and some others who lose possession far to cheaply, you need some chance takers but ones that have the right balance between risk and reward.  Losing possession with 2 or 3 opposition players around you 35 yards from goal is a big liability.

Edited May 10, 2023 by tinker

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, tinker said:

Bailey is a limited player, offensively, like Bert, they both want to cut in do their thing and its far to easy to defend against.

From a defensive point of view they are both pretty limited in the challenging/tacking department, they will close down but not effectively for 90 minutes. They also don't keep possession well enough or know when to pass  and keep possession, they take to many high risks with poor returns for a possession based team.

You have to keep possession or have players who can gain possession in the team, ATM we have to many players , Bailey,  Bert, Buendia and some others who lose possession far to cheaply, you need some chance takers but ones that have the right balance between risk and reward.  Losing possession with 2 or 3 opposition players around you 35 yards from goal is a big liability.

The high press stuff isn't that vital anymore - we don't press as much as we used to but rather do so in phases. Neither Bailey nor Traore, IMO, are a problem in that respect. 

Turning to a point I 100% agree with, possession is the issue. We need Bailey, or more likely now his replacement, to be someone who creates chances and can hold onto the ball better. The stats that I'm very interested in here are SCA (shot-creating actions) and KP (key passes) and Bailey's are not great, though they're still better than Harvey Barnes' numbers (who I've seen mooted as a replacement but is clearly unsuited to our style/system). 

[ChesterDad]

On 09/05/2023 at 10:22, av1 said:

I don’t disagree with any of that mate. What I would say is that there plenty of leagues around Europe that do afford those things, and Bailey has performed well in one of them. 
 

I do agree that Bailey isn’t going to work here, but I’m a bit more confident than many on here with regard to how much of the fee we will recoup. We’re going to take a loss, but I believe there will be plenty of takers at around £20m. 

I think you are being very ambitious here tbh. £10 m tops for me - although I would prefer you to be right

[Guest av1]

1 hour ago, ChesterDad said:

I think you are being very ambitious here tbh. £10 m tops for me - although I would prefer you to be right

I don’t know mate, I think many of us are confused by quite how bonkers the transfer market is, the ability to walk in straight line seems to be worth £10m these days. 
 

The other thing is that most managers are pretty arrogant about their abilty to get the best out of players. Even though he hasn’t been great here, I think there will be lots of clubs/managers looking at what he did in Germany thinking ‘I can get that out of him’

 

When relative unknowns like Nakamba and Trezeget are costing upwards of £10m, I really don’t think we’ll struggle too much to get someone paying closer to £20m for Bailey. 

[Delphinho123]

2 minutes ago, av1 said:

I don’t know mate, I think many of us are confused by quite how bonkers the transfer market is, the ability to walk in straight line seems to be worth £10m these days. 
 

The other thing is that most managers are pretty arrogant about their abilty to get the best out of players. Even though he hasn’t been great here, I think there will be lots of clubs/managers looking at what he did in Germany thinking ‘I can get that out of him’

 

When relative unknowns like Nakamba and Trezeget are costing upwards of £10m, I really don’t think we’ll struggle too much to get someone paying closer to £20m for Bailey. 

Its his wages that are the issue. 

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, ChesterDad said:

I think you are being very ambitious here tbh. £10 m tops for me - although I would prefer you to be right

We paid 25 million for Everton reserve left back. Newcastle paid 20 million for Chris Wood, City 40 million for Phillips

If we get 10 million then our negotiating team are mugs

[tinker]

Watching city last night,  Grealish hardly ever took the defender on or played a creative pass, behind the defenders. He drew the defenders in then passed the ball. Even for him, who was an excellent creative player,  the main priority is to keep possession. This is the way forward for us. Bailey isn't grasping this technique,  Mc Ginn is a better at it and maybe we will see him back out there if Kamara is fit enough to play..

[ChesterDad]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

We paid 25 million for Everton reserve left back. Newcastle paid 20 million for Chris Wood, City 40 million for Phillips

If we get 10 million then our negotiating team are mugs

I’m not sure that Digne is the best example to argue a point. I think many of us thought we were getting a player ? 
Bailey has not played much in two years and when he has, he has looked bang average at best.

We are not getting anywhere near our money back imo 

Edited May 10, 2023 by ChesterDad