Tammy Abraham

[MotoMkali]

56 minutes ago, QldVilla said:

Ok champ, so finding more excuses to justify your opinion, doesn't scream desperation at all.... 

Did you happen to think that Tuchel not playing Tammy regularly has more to do with the remit from the owner to get both the expensive signings going...??

No. Because he didn't even include Tammy on the bench for the CL final. Instead opting for 2 keepers. That really says it all.

Werner also wasn't that expensive for Chelsea. Only 45 million. Whilst big money it is essentially what the papers are reporting Tammy is worth. Which isn't the case because Werner is a much better player despite his scoring deficiencies due to his assists and overall play. 

I have already said why I think tammy is shit and I have provided ample evidence. Scoring goals alone does not make you a good player. Otherwise we may as well spend our money on Dwight Gayle and save us the trouble given his GPM ratio is fantastic. 

[sir_gary_cahill]

31 minutes ago, roonst83 said:

But where does he play? I’d be keen to get Tammy back if we didn’t have Watkins but they play the same position. I just can’t see us spending £40m so we can shift our top goalscorer out wide.

It gives us an option of playing 4-4-2 if the manager sees fit 

[MotoMkali]

6 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Why has this thread doubled? Did something happened?

No

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, Jas10 said:

Err… but I’m sure you’ve said we don’t need him and he won’t come here to sit on the bench

I’m jesting, you can change your mind. But maybe not quite so quickly or often I’m reminded of that sketch from the Fast Show

Again, Tammy isn’t crap. Although, I don’t think you should confidently state that he’s one of the best young strikers in the WORLD unless you’re aware of a massive amount of players and have vast knowledge of several different leagues.

We’ve really covered this whole subject to death now…

And we haven’t even placed a bid & seem unlikely to…

This place is going to combust if we actually do!!!

It’s the end of Villatalk if we manage to sign him! This place won’t be able to handle it!

You can sya he is shit. All his stats are shit except scoring. Which fair enough but its not like he projects to be anything more than a poacher. Like he will be Darren bent. There is nothing wrong with Darren bent except spending 40 mil on him when you already have a better striker and you only play 1 upfront. 

[QldVilla]

18 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

No. Because he didn't even include Tammy on the bench for the CL final. Instead opting for 2 keepers. That really says it all.

Werner also wasn't that expensive for Chelsea. Only 45 million. Whilst big money it is essentially what the papers are reporting Tammy is worth. Which isn't the case because Werner is a much better player despite his scoring deficiencies due to his assists and overall play. 

I have already said why I think tammy is shit and I have provided ample evidence. Scoring goals alone does not make you a good player. Otherwise we may as well spend our money on Dwight Gayle and save us the trouble given his GPM ratio is fantastic. 

Didn’t include him on the bench, well there you have it folks, proof…

It’s not proof at all, just reinforces the fact that the money spent and to be spent is more important than improving the home grown talent. History tells us that, they didn’t rate De Bruyne FFS and the long list of others who went on to become great players at other clubs.

You need to start quoting IMO, because it’s your opinion, not fact. You can find excuses for other players, but when it comes to Abraham you’ve stamped him.

[MotoMkali]

4 minutes ago, QldVilla said:

Didn’t include him on the bench, well there you have it folks, proof…

It’s not proof at all, just reinforces the fact that the money spent and to be spent is more important than improving the home grown talent. History tells us that, they didn’t rate De Bruyne FFS and the long list of others who went on to become great players at other clubs.

You need to start quoting IMO, because it’s your opinion, not fact. You can find excuses for other players, but when it comes to Abraham you’ve stamped him.

I literally already quoted tonnes of stats. I'm not posting them again. Loom through my post history if you want to see them. I'll give you my favourite though. 2nd percentile among strikers for successful take on percentage. 

[QldVilla]

10 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

I literally already quoted tonnes of stats. I'm not posting them again. Loom through my post history if you want to see them. I'll give you my favourite though. 2nd percentile among strikers for successful take on percentage. 

Yeh ok, I’m more interested in backing what I see, not an amateurs cherry picked stats.

The question is and always will be, can he put the ball in the net?

Edited July 3, 2021 by QldVilla

[AvfcRigo82]

2 minutes ago, QldVilla said:

Yeh ok, I’m more interested in backing what I see, not an amateurs cherry picked stats.

The question is and always will be, can he put the ball in the net?

Indeed he can and he has shown he can. 

[Adam2003]

50 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Which isn't the case because Werner is a much better player despite his scoring deficiencies due to his assists and overall play. 

Woah woah woah this is a great debate but let’s not claim ridiculous things like Tino Werner being a better player than… well… any other player…

[roonst83]

1 hour ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

It gives us an option of playing 4-4-2 if the manager sees fit 

Can you see Smith throwing out his 3 man attacking set up that he’s always had and that has got him to where he is now? I’m not so sure. 

I can only personallysee Tammy maybe coming if we sell Grealish and that’ll be to try and mask the sadness with some romantic notion of Tammy’s return to a place where he is loved. Even then you’ll have to either shove Watkins out wide to accommodate him, which I can’t see happening, or Tammy sits on the bench which I also can’t see happening. Smith only goes 4-4-2 in the last ten mins of a game when we’re losing. I struggle to see him throwing up his strategy and formation for Tammy.

Would be very interesting if Tammy does land and I’d always be excited to see him back at VP.

[sir_gary_cahill]

56 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

Woah woah woah this is a great debate but let’s not claim ridiculous things like Tino Werner being a better player than… well… any other player…

I think he’s good, Arsene Wenger always used to say that it used to take every foreign import 2 years go adapt to a foreign league. We’ll see the best of him next season or the season after. I see a player there, he scored many goals in the Bundesliga, we just need to be patient with him 

[sir_gary_cahill]

22 minutes ago, roonst83 said:

Can you see Smith throwing out his 3 man attacking set up that he’s always had and that has got him to where he is now? I’m not so sure. 

I can only personallysee Tammy maybe coming if we sell Grealish and that’ll be to try and mask the sadness with some romantic notion of Tammy’s return to a place where he is loved. Even then you’ll have to either shove Watkins out wide to accommodate him, which I can’t see happening, or Tammy sits on the bench which I also can’t see happening. Smith only goes 4-4-2 in the last ten mins of a game when we’re losing. I struggle to see him throwing up his strategy and formation for Tammy.

Would be very interesting if Tammy does land and I’d always be excited to see him back at VP.

Smith is very stubborn and set in his ways, he plays 1 up top but I think he has the potential to be a top manager in this league, in order to do this, he needs to be   more flexible. In my opinion, Watkins is a centre forward, not a winger, if there is an injury crisis, he can play there but only in emergencies. El Ghazi, Grealish and Traore are all easily good enough for The Premier League I think. Smith has been astute in the transfer market since he was appointed Villa manager I think, long may it continue 

[Kiwivillan]

1 hour ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

It gives us an option of playing 4-4-2 if the manager sees fit 

That's the thing though. Smith doesn't play 442. Has he ever last 3 clubs? Hardly anyone plays 442 anymore. Why would we sign Tammy and not start him? Just to change the formation the odd time? Smith has categorically said Watkins is his #1 striker and he's not moving him wide 

[sir_gary_cahill]

2 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

That's the thing though. Smith doesn't play 442. Has he ever last 3 clubs? Hardly anyone plays 442 anymore. Why would we sign Tammy and not start him? Just to change the formation the odd time? Smith has categorically said Watkins is his #1 striker and he's not moving him wide 

See my previous post ^^^

[Kiwivillan]

Just now, sir_gary_cahill said:

See my previous post ^^^

I was editing to take care of that. 

You can say 1 up top or 3 up top with 2 attacking mids either side in 433. 442 is jumpers for goalposts, Roy of the Rovers stuff. 

Smith isn't stubborn, he's progressive. He's into creating overloads like most modern progressive managers. This doesn't suit 442 

[sir_gary_cahill]

27 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

I was editing to take care of that. 

You can say 1 up top or 3 up top with 2 attacking mids either side in 433. 442 is jumpers for goalposts, Roy of the Rovers stuff. 

Smith isn't stubborn, he's progressive. He's into creating overloads like most modern progressive managers. This doesn't suit 442 

I think you are correct, it’s how the game has evolved over the years, I still think I’m in the 90s with Shearer and Sutton up top, living in the past 

[WakefieldVillan]

Can see both sides to this Tammy debate, but I'm edging towards wanting him here than not.

Why? Because I want Aston Villa to have the most competitive squad they can have to try secure European football next season (keep Jack) and to push on year after year till we're competing at the very highest level regularly. Now I'm not saying signing Tammy brings that but in order to progress we need "real" competition in every position and Tammy would bring that in the CF position.  I don't mind Davis or Wesley but there are big doubts over both players (goals wise, fitness wise) and heaven forbid Ollie has a long term injury then we can kiss goodbye chances of a top 6 finish. 

I know you could say well any club could lose their best player for a period of time and it will affect them (see Van Dijk Liverpool) but this signing covers us when Watkins is off form, not scoring, tired, gives us another (very good) option. It also raises the performance of the other player to peak levels which is what we want in every position. 

I'd like to hope that if there is a deal to be done it could be less than 40 million and I understand that's the major concern with the ones opposing this move (I do get that). It is a lot of money for potentially someone who may not improve our first eleven dramatically (if at all) but would improve our squad and options of the bench incredibly. 

[WooJung]

I'd rather we prioritise the spending elsewhere. With a bit more luck Ollie could've scored 20. Yes, we need a backup striker for him. No, we don't need a 40 million pound back up striker. And no, there is no guarantee that Ollie is a good enough left winger to start for us in the Premier league. Quite on the contrary, he made a name for himself as a centre forward. Prior to that he was a decent championship winger. Quite a difference. 

How about we spent 40 million on a defensive midfielder? 

[MotoMkali]

5 hours ago, QldVilla said:

Yeh ok, I’m more interested in backing what I see, not an amateurs cherry picked stats.

The question is and always will be, can he put the ball in the net?

They aren't cherry picked. I acknowledged what he did well and what he did poorly which vastly outweighed the former. 

But aside from that he was an average player in the Championship who scored lots of goals. No he is a poor one in the prem who scores lots of goals. That is just who he is. 

[Laughable Chimp]

6 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

No. Because he didn't even include Tammy on the bench for the CL final. Instead opting for 2 keepers. That really says it all.

Werner also wasn't that expensive for Chelsea. Only 45 million. Whilst big money it is essentially what the papers are reporting Tammy is worth. Which isn't the case because Werner is a much better player despite his scoring deficiencies due to his assists and overall play. 

I have already said why I think tammy is shit and I have provided ample evidence. Scoring goals alone does not make you a good player. Otherwise we may as well spend our money on Dwight Gayle and save us the trouble given his GPM ratio is fantastic. 

Mate, the only reason Dwight Gayle has a great GPM is because of his fantastic goal record and the Championship and you know this. He has famously failed to replicate this at the PL level. If his GPM ratio at the PL level was good, plenty of people here would find him more appealing as well.