Tammy Abraham

[Dave-R]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

and now in the summer thread they are discussing Traore when we already have brought somebody to almost replace him/compete with him re Buendia.  That conversation is no better than ours.  Until something actually happens this type of conversation is all we got…

Yeah makes no sense calling store out, he's a decent player and deserves a next season. We have found another RW. They discuss that as if they don't see what similarity it has with this thread and how we need a second striker, one that's more capable than Davis and Wesley. At least with Traore he is capable of challenging Buendia for his place or keeping Buendia on his toes or even being there if Buendia gets injured.

They are mad Nick lol.

[AvfcRigo82]

18 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

I agree with you.

People are saying don't bring Tammy in for 40 million but they sure as hell ain't saying who or mentioning anyone who could be great value for much less than Tammy.

We can't even suggest Ivan Toney anymore because he'd more than likely be around 35 million now to buy.

Forwards are now becoming more expensive and for what Tammy brings and the price he could be (because let's face it 40 mill may not be the price) then we should snap an excellent second striker up.

I just see no reason or anything bad as to why people would want to have him at Villa, most of the reasons are no even reasons it's just a select couple calling him shit.

Absolutely, Yes.

Plus, I don't think we should approach Brentford for any more players either, It would have been cheaper buying the club.

[nick76]

1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Absolutely, Yes.

Plus, I don't think we should approach Brentford for any more players either, It would have been cheaper buying the club.

Can we afford to buy Arsenal and Brentford?

[Dave-R]

6 minutes ago, Pez1974 said:

Late to this....

1) Tammy would be a great addition to the squad; I'm not sure he'd be a starter in my first 11 if Ollie was fit. But he knows us, and we know him, so the 'risk' element with any transfer is reduced. 

2) For £40m, assuming Jack is staying, I would be slightly concerned as I think we have greater need in the squad (DCM for me) where this money might have more impact.

3) His wages might unsettle a few people, and lead to a significant hike in our overall wages costs due to the knock on effect (see Declan Rice apparently rejected deals at West Ham due to the mad wages others are on). 

4) I do not understand the clubs current plans or finances so (2) and (3) are neurotic fears; I trust the club to get these right

5) Star Wars is a lot better than Star Trek, and if you think differently, you're just plain wrong. 

Well thanks for the input, good read.

I'm not sure actually what Tammy is on a week, anyone with an answer to his please?

Jack would certainly stay if Tammy was brought in as they both are mates.

As for whether Tammy would be a starter or not we were talking about this the other day or yesterday and some agreed that no one should be a guaranteed starter in a squad, that everyone should have to battle for there place, hence why bringing Tammy in for competition to Watkins would be great.

That's it as well I trust the club and those in charge to get it all right, so the main thing is if they brought Tammy to Villa then we would have to trust that they see a part for him to play.

[nick76]

Just now, Dave-R said:

I'm not sure actually what Tammy is on a week, anyone with an answer to his please?

Reports vary between 57k and 82k per week

[sidcow]

30 minutes ago, osmark86 said:

Like they did the poor people of Alderaan...

To be fair a while ago I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened. 

It was around the time @TrentVilla locked the Rashica thread. 

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, QldVilla said:

So in your opinion he’s a crap player who scores lots of goals, well If that isn’t the definition of an oxymoron, nothing is.

No it isn't. Being good at one thing does not make you a good player. Abraham is awful at all forms of buildup play and the like. He isn't skilful he won't create for others, he won't beat a man and score he won't score from outside the box he needs his teammates to do the vast majority of the work for him.

As much as I like tammy for helping getting us promoted I don't want us to waste money on a player who isn't good enough and won't contribute to actually fixing our deficiencies especially our over reliance on Grealish's shot creation. 

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, Jas10 said:

He’s not shit, he’s just not as good as Watkins or offers as much. 

At the right fee and wages, he would be a real asset to the squad. But you don’t break your transfer record for such a player, that’s ludicrous and the main thing I take issue with.

You know, it doesn’t really help the thread when it’s been created by an obsessive fan and you shit all over said player

Best kept to calm and reasoned debate, making points eloquently/succinctly and backed up by evidence or even stats such as you do and are capable of. If you just keep saying he’s shit, people are going to get annoyed and it’s going to get derailed.

I am having a calm and reasoned debate. There is no other way to read his just awful awful stats. Outside of scoring and in the box defence. Pretty much everyone of his stats are below 30th percentile a large number of them are below 5th percentile. That means he is worse than 95% of forwards in these areas. He is a very poor player in many many respects. He scores goals but he isn't what we need he can go to a club like Brighton, finish his dinner and not have to create for himself or for others. 

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, Dave-R said:

This is F'in laughable this comment.

Apart from Grealish he was our stand out player in the championship and by a mile, he was way to good for the league.

Tammy's all round game is pretty decent and when he was finally given minutes it was in a Chelsea side that to was struggling in the prem. The lad wasn't getting any stable minutes, here, there and in doses right? Have you ever thought that it were those at Chelsea who were playing him poorly or not playing to his strengths as well as not giving him decent game time. You can not look past how well he did forthe scraps he was given.

 

Barely any minutes at Chelsea? He played over 2000 minutes last season (19/20). That is a good number.

Abraham was not our standout player unless you are talking about how all the easy chances he missed stood out. He rarely beat a man, had poor pressing, poor hold up play and poor passing. Scoring is all well and good but your team needs to be able to get into a position to create a chance and abraham doesn't contribute to that.

Scoring goals alone does not make you good. Tammy scores goals well. That's it. He has no other particularly useful abilities for a striker he isn't playing cutting passes or gliding past a player. His only value comes from the goals he scores. 

Edited July 3, 2021 by MotoMkali

[AvfcRigo82]

9 minutes ago, sidcow said:

It was around the time @TrentVilla locked the Rashica thread. 

Yes. The handling of it could have been better rather than toys being thrown out the pram behaviour.

 

[nick76]

10 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

No it isn't. Being good at one thing does not make you a good player. Abraham is awful at all forms of buildup play and the like. He isn't skilful he won't create for others, he won't beat a man and score he won't score from outside the box he needs his teammates to do the vast majority of the work for him.

He has more assists than Ollie in less minutes

Ollie PL 20/21 - 3329 mins - 1 goal every 238 minutes plus 5 assists

Tammy PL 20/21 - 1033 mins - 1 goal every 172 minutes plus 2 assists

Tammy PL 19/20 - 2222 mins - 1 goal every 148 minutes plus 4 assists

[nick76]

12 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

won't contribute to actually fixing our deficiencies especially our over reliance on Grealish's shot creation.

Didn’t we just but somebody to help in Buendia and trying to buy ESR as well

[Dave-R]

2 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

No it isn't. Being good at one thing does not make you a good player. Abraham is awful at all forms of buildup play and the like. He isn't skilful he won't create for others, he won't beat a man and score he won't score from outside the box he needs his teammates to do the vast majority of the work for him.

As much as I like tammy for helping getting us promoted I don't want us to waste money on a player who isn't good enough and won't contribute to actually fixing our deficiencies especially our over reliance on Grealish's shot creation. 

Can I ask you a question, you support Wesley yes? Your like the way he plays and popped in a few goals before his injury?

Then why would you slate Tammy who can be a in the box sniper of the ball much better than what Wesley can for a start. I would call you out on his build up play, that it's far better than what your thinking it is.Tammy has very good positioning as well. Abraham has very good defensive play, so if we were to be backed up he can help dig us out of trouble. I have seen Abraham run all over the pitch for us and make a nuisance of himself much like Watkins does for us.

all our players beyond Grealish are reliable on him and any other creativity, it's a daft point your trying to put up here because with Grealish or soon Buendia and that creative play, no one is going to score for us and any striker relies on this type of play.

one problem I find with your whole silly point of calling Tammy shit over and over is the fact you have yet to announce anyone who is cheaper or better than him that could come in and do a job for us.

whether you like it or not, Smith still praises Tammy this day and continues to say he'd love him back at Villa. The whole reason why Smith got Tammy in the first place in the championship was because of how much alike in places Tammy and Watkins are, yes they have slight differences but saying Tammy is shit full stop it's like your crapping on Smith's ideas of what he wants in his forwards.

I'd just like you to put some names in for all us who'd like to see Tammy here or given the chance at Villa, if your going to slate the man at least put someone worthy up for the new striker role.

no way is Davis and Wesley going to do next season, not for a team chasing Europe.

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Outside of scoring and in the box defence

Yeah let’s forget about those, not important are they for a striker?

[MotoMkali]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

He has more assists than Ollie in less minutes

Ollie PL 20/21 - 3329 mins - 1 goal every 238 minutes plus 5 assists

Tammy PL 20/21 - 1033 mins - 1 goal every 172 minutes plus 2 assists

Tammy PL 19/20 - 2222 mins - 1 goal every 148 minutes plus 4 assists

Tammy 20/21 expected assist 0.72 -> assists 1, per 90 0.06

Tammy 19/20 expected assists 2.72 -> 3, per 90 0.11xA

Ollie Watkins 5.32 - > 5, Per 90 0.14xA

Watkins clearly out classes him in this area. And whilst the 0.11 is higher than I remember (I thought it was 0.08 or something though I might have jsut merged the numbers) his actual chance creation, and shot creating actions are very low for a forward. Again in like the 20th percentile. 

[nick76]

18 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

Abraham was not our standout player unless you are talking about how all the easy chances he missed stood out. He rarely beat a man, had poor pressing, poor hold up play and poor passing. Scoring is all well and good but your team needs to be able to get into a position to create a chance and abraham doesn't contribute to that.

Abraham was one of our stand out players, to say anything else is plainly false.

Tammy scores goals that Grealish, Buendia and hopefully ESR create.  He created more assists than Ollie per minute.  You seem to want another creator in the striker role not a goalscorer.  With all the creators we have we need somebody to put it away

Edited July 3, 2021 by nick76

[Laughable Chimp]

2 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

His goal record is like a goal every 160 minutes at prem level up until last season where it started falling off. But that's because he plays for Steve Bruce and he is old. 

Firstly, don't you think ignoring his most recent season makes the comparison disengenuous? 

Secondly, I'm fairly sure that stat you quoted is wrong as well. You're looking at his goal rate during his crystal palace days, a club he left 5 years ago and it was 180 minutes per goal. He's goal record in the PL since has been 300 minutes per goal so no, its not as if he only started tailing of last season.

[MotoMkali]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Yeah let’s forget about those, not important are they for a striker?

Scoring is important sure. But helping your teammates score is more important.

We got what 25 goals from our wingers this season. If we had abraham we would have had about 15. He doesn't contribute towards build up play at all. 

[nick76]

Just now, MotoMkali said:

Tammy 20/21 expected assist 0.72 -> assists 1, per 90 0.06

Tammy 19/20 expected assists 2.72 -> 3, per 90 0.11xA

Ollie Watkins 5.32 - > 5, Per 90 0.14xA

Watkins clearly out classes him in this area. And whilst the 0.11 is higher than I remember (I thought it was 0.08 or something though I might have jsut merged the numbers) his actual chance creation, and shot creating actions are very low for a forward. Again in like the 20th percentile. 

You are quoting expected, I quoted actuals….I win.

Does it matter in a game the expected goals or the actual score line? Obviously the actual score is all that counts.

[AvfcRigo82]

26 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Can we afford to buy Arsenal and Brentford?

Our owners could buy both clubs but it would be better to asset strip Arsenal.

I actually have more respect for Brentford.