Popular Post mjmooney Posted April 23, 2021 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2021 Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 (edited) I’m finding it harder and harder to be proud of being English as each year goes by. I remember people used to mock countries in Europe for being so far behind us and they have utterly overtaken us in a lot of important ways. Cleaner, more prosperous, safer, better standard of living. Maybe it’s a side effect of living in a built up city on a plebs wage perhaps? I don’t know. The country just seems nasty these days. From the top downwards. Deep down the good people want to change things but all feel broken and beaten by those who punch downwards and the people they riled up in to supporting them. It’s all broken for a lot of people. Edited April 23, 2021 by Ingram85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sidcow Posted April 23, 2021 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2021 Love where you're from. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 23, 2021 Moderator Share Posted April 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, sidcow said: Love where you're from. All but one of those images are from areas with separatist movements, just saying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted April 23, 2021 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2021 Pride is a bullshit emotion (as as its flipside, shame). What's to be proud of in an accident of birth? I like much about England, mainly because it's what I'm familiar with. I don't have any desire to live elsewhere. Other countries would be better in some ways, worse in others. But what are patriots proud of? History? It's a tangled mess of positive and negative stuff, but whatever it is, 'we' had nothing to do with it. Celebrate good things, acknowledge bad ones, regardless of artificially created borders. And flags and national anthems can do one. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Paddywhack Posted April 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, sidcow said: Love where you're from. None of these look like Halesowen. 3 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted April 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2021 (edited) Georgie is also the patron saint of Bulgaria among others. So that’s a National day for @AVFC_Hitz I think? I’m part Bulgarian. As I was born in England, I just need to catch syphilis in order to complete the St George hat trick. Edited April 23, 2021 by Mark Albrighton 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Paddywhack said: None of these look like Halesowen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted April 23, 2021 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Pride is a bullshit emotion (as as its flipside, shame). What's to be proud of in an accident of birth? I like much about England, mainly because it's what I'm familiar with. I don't have any desire to live elsewhere. Other countries would be better in some ways, worse in others. But what are patriots proud of? History? It's a tangled mess of positive and negative stuff, but whatever it is, 'we' had nothing to do with it. Celebrate good things, acknowledge bad ones, regardless of artificially created borders. And flags and national anthems can do one. Pride in one's manners and those of your children, pride of your appearance, the pride of achieving something your thought impossible etc, Lack of pride is the home of the degenerate . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Pride in one's manners and those of your children, pride of your appearance, the pride of achieving something your thought impossible etc, Lack of pride is the home of the degenerate . Manners are a given. If you don't have them, learn them, and people will like you more. Nothing to be 'proud' of. Personal achievements? Yes, they are satisfying. Enjoyable. They make me feel happy. Not proud - too much like blowing your own trumpet for my liking (modesty is such a British thing, eh?) And it overshadows the contributions of others - as a Beach Boys song had it, "You need a mess of help to stand alone" (yes, Margaret, there is such a thing as society). Pride in our children? Same thing - it suggests that they owe it all to us - 'competitive dad' syndrome. As above, I'm delighted and happy for my kids when good things happen to them. I don't puff out my chest and say "That's MY girl". Maybe we're just arguing over words, but I've always been deeply suspicious of the concept of pride. As I said above, shame is the other side of the same coin. If you've done something bad, acknowledge it, apologise, learn from it, and move on. And we shouldn't be apologising for what our ancestors and forebears did. I didn't massacre anybody at Amritsar or Drogheda, nor did our current army or government, nor did anybody alive today. Write it up in the history books, make sure current generations learn about it, and make sure not to repeat it. Apologising now is ridiculous. It's all the same irrational bullshit. Edited April 23, 2021 by mjmooney 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted April 23, 2021 Author VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Manners are a given. If you don't have them, learn them, and people will like you more. Nothing to be 'proud' of. Personal achievements? Yes, they are satisfying. Enjoyable. They make me feel happy. Not proud - too much like blowing your own trumpet for my liking (modesty is such a British thing, eh?) And it overshadows the contributions of others - as a Beach Boys song had it, "You need a mess of help to stand alone" (yes, Margaret, there is such a thing as society). Pride in our children? Same thing - it suggests that they owe it all to us - 'competitive dad' syndrome. As above, I'm delighted and happy for my kids when good things happen to them. I don't puff out my chest and say "That's MY girl". Maybe we're just arguing over words, but I've always been deeply suspicious of the concept of pride. As I said above, shame is the other side of the same coin. If you've done something bad, acknowledge it, apologise, learn from it, and move on. And we shouldn't be apologising for what our ancestors and forebears did. I didn't massacre anybody at Amritsar or Drogheda, nor did our current army or government, nor did anybody alive today. Write it up in the history books, make sure current generations learn about it, and make sure not to repeat it. Apologising now is ridiculous. It's all the same irrational bullshit. I think we are arguing over words, your happy is the same feeling as my pride by the looks, makes neither of us right or wrong and neither should be suspicious of the other. Example, 8/9000 of us singing 'We're proud of you' to the team at Everton on Graham Taylors final game when we came runners up. It meant an awful lot to the team to hear such praise which also made them happy but certainly an element of pride involved on our part to relay your message, much better then chanting 'We're happy with you' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Paddywhack Posted April 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2021 26 minutes ago, sidcow said: Yup, the beautiful Whitefriars cottages. In the late 60s they built that horrendous concrete car park opposite them. It's conveniently out of shot. I read a lot about my local history, none of it makes me feel proud to English, I just like the history and the buildings. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Paddywhack said: I read a lot about my local history, none of it makes me feel proud to English, I just like the history and the buildings. Exactly this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted April 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2021 I love aspects of English (British) life and culture, but I highly suspect that if I had been born in France or wherever, I’d equally find aspects of that life & culture to love. I just like the English stuff more because I’m obviously far more familiar with it. I’d equally dislike some aspects of living in France, like I do in England. Looking at a nice picture of Alnwick Castle or Lake Windermere is fine, I can appreciate the beauty and am happy that it’s (relatively) close by, but it stirs a similar response in me as seeing pictures of the Dordogne Valley does. I could get misty-eyed thinking about Shakespeare or Edward Jenner, but if I had been born around 400 miles South East from here, I’d presumably be getting wistful about Dumas and Pascal. It’s arbitrary, I guess is my point. Additionally, the supposedly unique English/British persona of fair play, stiff upper lip, all that stuff. Yeah you can find me examples to “prove” that (if you cherry pick the good bits and ignore a shit load of other stuff), but are you telling me that people in, say, Iceland don’t believe in fair play? Or that people in Nepal are incapable of stoicism? Nonsense. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted April 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2021 This sort of stuff always reminds me of the genius of Morris and Co... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 There’s only one race I like, the human race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knoppy1987 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Genie said: This is true. Unfortunately in England the bare chested, pissed up, fighting, Tommy Robinson supporting, Brexiteer, away day football fans have ruined flying a flag or being proud to be English. It is a very good observation and one that can be detrimental to your own morale given any thought; it was for mine on many occasions during my lifetime. Thankfully I do not come across these degenerate types so much anymore although it took an extravagant move in order to achieve it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted April 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2021 2 hours ago, sidcow said: Love where you're from. Obviously shopped. The suns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTTERDAM1982 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 Quit a bit of stereotyping on here.......very unusual. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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