Hank Scorpio Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Tielemans as a DM is a disaster. The defence will be under so much pressure as the midfield is just passed straight through. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 12 Moderator Share Posted February 12 The best solution to the Kamara problem is to go with three centre backs and get the solidity that way, with Carlos or Torres pushing out from the back to fill the midfield hole rather than trying to get a less defensive player to fulfil Kamara's defensive duty. The problem with that is that we're also running out of CB's - with no Mings and no Konsa and Torres' fitness a little bit mysterious, and with Chambers not registered for Europe, it'd mean starting our next UECL fixture with every single fit and available CB at the football club on the pitch. We'd be an injury away from disaster. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 12 Moderator Share Posted February 12 -------------------------------Martinez-------------------------------- ----------Carlos------------Torres----------Lenglet------------- Cash---------------Luiz-----------McGinn--------------Digne -------------Bailey-------------------------------Ramsey---------- -------------------------------Watkins-------------------------------- Would seem to me the most sensible solution for Fulham - that and ninety minutes of prayer that no one else gets injured or sent off. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I think his natural inclination is going to play McGinn in the pivot for the next few months. He's far superior to Tielemans but inferior to Kamara. If we can get Pau back, I think that would be an enormous help until Konsa is back as he can take the responsibility of progressive off those midfielders. But we will have to shift the mentality to extracting points out of teams lower than us and playing more direct against the teams with a better press. Unai will despise it but you can only work with the tools you and the toolbox is about half empty now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Just now, OutByEaster? said: -------------------------------Martinez-------------------------------- ----------Carlos------------Torres----------Lenglet------------- Cash---------------Luiz-----------McGinn--------------Digne -------------Bailey-------------------------------Ramsey---------- -------------------------------Watkins-------------------------------- Would seem to me the most sensible solution for Fulham - that and ninety minutes of prayer that no one else gets injured or sent off. I really don't like changing the system. I would prefer changing the way the tactics and keeping players in the same positions. Continue trying to press bait lesser teams but go more direct against better pressing teams. Yes - we will lose the impetus of control, but that's what we've got right now. In my view, the changing of the system is the beginning of the end for most managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAlex Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: -------------------------------Martinez-------------------------------- ----------Carlos------------Torres----------Lenglet------------- Cash---------------Luiz-----------McGinn--------------Digne -------------Bailey-------------------------------Ramsey---------- -------------------------------Watkins-------------------------------- Would seem to me the most sensible solution for Fulham - that and ninety minutes of prayer that no one else gets injured or sent off. I hate this formation but given the options I do agree it's the best plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman22 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Maybe this is Tim’s time to step up. It would be a lot to expect of him but Unai said he let Dendonker go because he’s confident Tim can make the grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 12 Moderator Share Posted February 12 10 minutes ago, DJBOB said: I really don't like changing the system. I would prefer changing the way the tactics and keeping players in the same positions. Continue trying to press bait lesser teams but go more direct against better pressing teams. Yes - we will lose the impetus of control, but that's what we've got right now. I think we're already playing a compromised system. I think he'd much rather not play both attacking fullbacks - but without Konsa I'm not sure any of the other CB's can cover the full back position - I guess you could keep the system we've played for most of this season by swapping left and right in our defence and going: -------------------------------Martinez-------------------------------- Cash--------------Carlos------------Torres----------Lenglet ------------------Luiz-----------Iroegbunam---------------------- ------McGinn------------------------------------------Ramsey---- ---------------------------------------------Bailey----------------------- -------------------------------Watkins--------------------------------- Or compromise with the fullbacks and go: -------------------------------Martinez-------------------------------- Cash--------------Carlos------------Torres------------Digne ------------------Luiz-----------Iroegbunam---------------------- ------McGinn------------------------------------------Ramsey---- --------------Bailey----------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------Watkins--------------------------------- And in both of those line ups you could bring in Tielemans for Iroegbunam and shuffle things about - but I think we end up really compromised with lots of players being asked to do the weaker bits of their games - Cash defending first/McGinn or Tielemans in the pivot and so on. What I can't see him playing is a 4-3-3 which essentially has four wide men in Digne, Cash, Bailey and Diaby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Just now, OutByEaster? said: I think we're already playing a compromised system. I think he'd much rather not play both attacking fullbacks - but without Konsa I'm not sure any of the other CB's can cover the full back position - I guess you could keep the system we've played for most of this season by going: -------------------------------Martinez-------------------------------- Cash--------------Carlos------------Torres----------Lenglet ------------------Luiz-----------Iroegbunam---------------------- ------McGinn------------------------------------------Ramsey---- --------------Bailey----------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------Watkins--------------------------------- Or compromise with the fullbacks and go: -------------------------------Martinez-------------------------------- Cash--------------Carlos------------Torres------------Digne ------------------Luiz-----------Iroegbunam---------------------- ------McGinn------------------------------------------Ramsey---- --------------Bailey----------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------Watkins--------------------------------- And in both of those line ups you could bring in Tielemans for Iroegbunam and shuffle things about - but I think we end up really compromised with lots of players being asked to do the weaker bits of their games - Cash defending first/McGinn or Tielemans in the pivot and so on. What I can't see him playing is a 4-3-3 which essentially has four wide men in Digne, Cash, Bailey and Diaby. Cash had one of his better games against United in the back 3 positioning even against a dangerous counter threat with Rashford. Given the lack of choices - it might just have to be that. I can sort of squint and see the 433 but I struggle to find any of the top teams that play with a 433 or 451 out of possession or in possession. right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 12 Moderator Share Posted February 12 9 minutes ago, DJBOB said: Cash had one of his better games against United in the back 3 positioning even against a dangerous counter threat with Rashford. Given the lack of choices - it might just have to be that. He did, and I'm maybe being a bit harsh on him, but I think Unai would very much prefer a defensive right back and an attacking left back and Cash is by nature an attacking right back. I think if we compromise there, it'll limit the risks he'll be prepared to take in selection further forward. 9 minutes ago, DJBOB said: I can sort of squint and see the 433 but I struggle to find any of the top teams that play with a 433 or 451 out of possession or in possession. right now. Agreed, I can't see us playing a 4-3-3 with Diaby-Watkins-Bailey as a trio - especially if he's compromising with Cash at right back - and I'm even more convinced that he won't do both of those things AND further compromise by moving McGinn or Tielemans into the Kamara shaped hole. It'd be replacing the defensive right back (Konsa) with an attacking one (Cash), replacing the defensive midfielder (Kamara) with one more naturally attacking (McGinn or Tielemans) and replacing the more natural midfield player (McGinn) with a forward (Diaby) - it's too much. I think Liverpool play a 4-3-3 - albeit with TAA given licence to wander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 12 Moderator Share Posted February 12 If it is to be Tim (and there aren't many options) then it'll a huge test for the boy - I hope he does well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teale's 'tache Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 9 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: If it is to be Tim (and there aren't many options) then it'll a huge test for the boy - I hope he does well. I think it will be Tim or move McGinn back, those seem to cause the least upheaval. Sometimes an injury can give an opportunity that sparks a career, if it is to be Tim I hope he grasps the opportunity and makes a name for himself. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eholm Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 7 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said: I think it will be Tim or move McGinn back, those seem to cause the least upheaval. Sometimes an injury can give an opportunity that sparks a career, if it is to be Tim I hope he grasps the opportunity and makes a name for himself. Exactly this re injury opportunity…..see Miley at Newcastle, Mainoo at Utd, Bradley at Liverpool. Maybe, just maybe Tim…. go well young man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 McGinn Luiz Ramsey Diaby Bailey Oliver Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 12 Moderator Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, villa89 said: McGinn Luiz Ramsey Diaby Bailey Oliver Watkins Can't see that - with two attacking fullbacks it'd leave us really unbalanced - you'd be asking Digne/Moreno/Cash and McGinn to all do the things they're not good at. Tim would be the natural replacement (and especially once we can hopefully get Konsa back in at right back) but if he doesn't trust him enough, I'd prefer to go with a CB than change the balance to such a large degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Luiz has to play DM imo. Yes it's not ideal given how brilliant he's been for us in 2023 as the "8" tempo player but he played pretty much all of his football under Dean as the DM so he has experience and he's mature enough now to see the bigger picture and sacrifice himself a bit in the last three months. Do not want Tielemans anywhere near there, he was poor when Leicester played him deeper and they dropped down the league. I think Luiz-Tielemans-McGinn at least will keep us on the frontfoot for home games we really need to win in the run in (Forest/Bournemouth/Brentford/Wolves) but will likely get found out against better midfields. Then again Newcastle and Chelsea have ran through midfield lately with Kamara in it so perhaps a restructuring was needed anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 2 hours ago, Hank Scorpio said: Tielemans as a DM is a disaster. The defence will be under so much pressure as the midfield is just passed straight through. He's not athletic enough to play that role for a start when we lose the ball and it's a quick turnover. Clearly whoever suggested that didn't watch Leicester once in the last two years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: -------------------------------Martinez-------------------------------- ----------Carlos------------Torres----------Lenglet------------- Cash---------------Luiz-----------McGinn--------------Digne -------------Bailey-------------------------------Ramsey---------- -------------------------------Watkins-------------------------------- Would seem to me the most sensible solution for Fulham - that and ninety minutes of prayer that no one else gets injured or sent off. I think that's a decent idea in fairness. Was thinking about it on the walk back from work and Unai in certain games last season switched to a back 3. In that system you could have Pau moving into central midfield. Lenglet also played regularly in back 3 for Spurs last season so certainly far more practical with what we have left than Tielemans at fecking DM that's for sure! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) I think Emery will still want to stick with his trusted 442 /4222 formation, regardless of the Kamara news today. It’s whether he goes with Iroegbunum, McGinn or Tielemans next to Luiz? I reckon he’ll start with Tielemans initially, which isn’t ideal. A returning Pau and Digne helps us defensively at this point and a returning Konsa in three/four weeks hopefully. Martinez Cash Carlos Pau Digne Tielemans Luiz McGinn Ramsey Bailey Watkins Subs: Olsen, KKH, Lenglet, Moreno, Chambers, Iroegbunum, Rogers, Zaniolo, Diaby Edited February 12 by ferguson1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ferguson1 said: I think Emery will still want to stick with his trusted 442 /4222 formation, regardless of the Kamara news today. It’s whether he goes with Iroegbunum, McGinn or Tielemans next to Luiz? I reckon to start with Tielemans initially. A returning Pau and Digne helps us defensively at this point and a returning Konsa in three/four weeks hopefully. Martinez Cash Carlos Pau Digne Tielemans Luiz McGinn Ramsey Bailey Watkins Subs: Olsen, KKH, Lenglet, Moreno, Chambers, Iroegbunum, Rogers, Zaniolo, Diaby This lineup with McGinn in the double pivot and Bailey wide right with Tielemans back in the 10 hole makes the most sense. JJ on the left can provide a dynamic outlet that McGinn couldn't in the same position when we started against Newcastle. Unai went with McGinn in the double pivot and Buendia in the 10 role with Bailey wide right after Kamara was injured away at Chelsea last year. No reason to think he wouldn't go for it again. It's against the better pressing sides that will have me worried. Edited February 12 by DJBOB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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