CVByrne Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 17 minutes ago, DJBOB said: And I agree with the City plan. It is the same principles as the first phase diamond press with a few tweaks. See below a snapshot. Diaby on the ball, Watkins shadowing the pass back to the keeper, Kamara and Bailey tight on their markers in the ball side of the pitch and McGinn the barrier to the other half of the pitch. Pin them to a side, force them to play long or a risky combination in the middle. Here, Gvardiol plays to Bernardo which Bailey eventually intercept. That was a gameplan specific to us playing City at Villa Park, crowd energy giving players energy to go with the high press in this game as our best chance to have control of the match and play it on our terms. For us very little shows up properly in the statistics because we change our game plan depending on the opposition and critically the game state. Emery's edge and our edge is that. Also our ability to conserve energy means we are very strong at the end of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 27/01/2024 at 11:30, DJBOB said: Another week and the same problems against the press. Without Pau and certain configurations, we have specific weaknesses that teams are exploiting. This is not dissimilar from how Liverpool trapped us early on. As Emi passes it to Lenglet, Palmer would sweep in behind to cut off the pass back to Emi and Chelsea would pin us to the weaker side. Watkins is the hold up player here but the key weakness? Tielemans is not brilliant with his back to the opponent and made a lot of key mistakes in the first half, not showing often enough in the box midfield and tending to be a bit wider than natural. JJ is so good at this role, McGinn has vastly improved in this role and I’d argue we had a decent run with Zaniolo at LM because of his ability to offer an outlet. On the other side, we had more room for progression with the Cash/McGinn dynamic but when the opponents marked them tightly, Diaby was the free man but could not link play or hold off his marker consistently. When we build out the way we do, it puts players on little islands and we always seem to have a weakness when doing so. Dendoncker against United. Tielemans on the left instead of up top where he could drop in between the lines. Diaby in general. This is what Unai talks about a lot when needing to improve and everyone being able to play this way. Bailey used to have the exact same problems as Diaby whether it was up top or shifted out wide but he has really improved in that area this year linking play. Hopefully the others can improve at this as well. well articulated observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 We do have a lot to progress on in terms of our building from the back. I think we need a few bigger stronger players who can receive the ball to feet under pressure from behind and shield it for a few seconds before releasing the ball to another teammate. This is a good approach against pressing sides because a player can close you down but you can essentially fend them off. Add to that we all know Pau is key here as he's surely in the top few CBs when it comes to passing and possession play. As pointed out by @DJBOB we have weak points in the side at the moment in the build up. Against the top pressing sides we need Pau in LCB and Tielemans as the s/s dropping deep from forward line with Bailey or Diaby from RM attacking. This can allow Tielemans to drop into CM and make a 3 with Luiz and Kamara and the ball out wide to Moreno/Bailey to progress forward. We just need a few pieces to the puzzle and Morgan Rogers might be a big help with that in how he receives the ball dropping off the forward line and can pass it or carry it forward. It's amazing to think where we are tactically after just over a year with Emery and with quite a few injuries and not too many new signings to the squad he inhertied. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 5 hours ago, CVByrne said: We do have a lot to progress on in terms of our building from the back. I think we need a few bigger stronger players who can receive the ball to feet under pressure from behind and shield it for a few seconds before releasing the ball to another teammate. This is a good approach against pressing sides because a player can close you down but you can essentially fend them off. Add to that we all know Pau is key here as he's surely in the top few CBs when it comes to passing and possession play. As pointed out by @DJBOB we have weak points in the side at the moment in the build up. Against the top pressing sides we need Pau in LCB and Tielemans as the s/s dropping deep from forward line with Bailey or Diaby from RM attacking. This can allow Tielemans to drop into CM and make a 3 with Luiz and Kamara and the ball out wide to Moreno/Bailey to progress forward. We just need a few pieces to the puzzle and Morgan Rogers might be a big help with that in how he receives the ball dropping off the forward line and can pass it or carry it forward. It's amazing to think where we are tactically after just over a year with Emery and with quite a few injuries and not too many new signings to the squad he inhertied. Agreed - Rogers fits a lot of boxes. Can play on the left and link/hold up. Can play up top and link/hold up/creativity in the final third. Least needed on the right where we have multiple options but I'm sure could do a job there. Very plain to see why Unai is keen to get him despite his youth. A profile that fits his system almost directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) spending most of our season in the top 5, has brought a different opponent to our door. Teams will raise their game against us. Mixing at the top table, will inevitably, test our abilities, to preside there. I would suspect, UE is only too aware of that, and his next influx of new recruits, will feature in his thoughts of how to deal with that. I think we may well be entering a new phase, and blowing teams away, may not be so easy as it was. I also suspect, games will take on varying phases of tactical play, and we as fans need to be patient, during games. I have been watching this game for a very long time, but I have to confess....I am learning from this man, he has a definite way of playing, and it morphs, even during a game...so while he has a way, he tweaks it ,too. Its always difficult to know, if the players are ignoring certain maxims, or are they playing to orders.....but I think, in the main, they are playing to orders. of course, plans don't always pay off......but it is reassuring to know, he has them....more than I can say for some past managers, who just seemed to send them out to "do your best" I still feel nervy at times, and thats up to me, to deal with....but there is no fool proof system, to win games, the opposition at times, deserve respect too and games be cat and mouse. I still feel in his time with us to have recorded a 60% + win ratio over 58 games, is phenomenal......and I expect him to keep changing tactics/ systems, to meet the demands of the opposition, because they all offer different threats. Moving forward, that win% will be difficult to maintain, as teams come to terms with us......but its great so far. Edited January 30 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 If teams don’t let us walk it into the 6 yard box we don’t know how to score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Past 8 games…. We haven’t got a clue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan95 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 We haven't defended well enough all season and now our goals have dried up it's getting exposed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 4 minutes ago, villan95 said: We haven't defended well enough all season and now our goals have dried up it's getting exposed. Completely found out now. No side is going to worry about playing us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Before VT descends into histrionics, we essentially lost the game when Unai put out this lineup. I understand what he wants to do but Tielemans has been a huge negative playing the LM position and persisting with Diaby up top has not provided any improvement or results. So this one is on Unai for me for persisting with this lineup. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farlz Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) We've been completely found out tactically. We play sooo slow and methodically that teams know how to set up against us. The high line got a battering tonight as well. This isn't just a reaction on tonight I've been saying for weeks and weeks how poor we've been but it's been papered over the cracks. Big eye opener for everyone tonight because I see no evidence we'll sort this any time soon. Edited January 30 by Farlz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Yep play a low line and we can't break it down, we miss Buendia msssively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Our tactics are not unique and we've been playing the high line in particular for nearly 12 months. Teams haven't suddenly had an ephinany half way through the season and gone 'if we try this we'll find villa out'. We've played teams like Luton, West Ham and Fulham who showed little inclination to do anything else but sit back and hit on the counter, and stuck at least 3 past each. However all systems can be beaten if they are not well implemented. And that is what we are seeing now. Bad decisions, sloppy passing, and moving the ball too slow, which was not the case earlier in the season. Too many players are losing individual battles as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMightyVillans Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Seems like we have been worked out with this box midfield at the moment. Seems like we might need another plan with a bit of a formation tweak. Wouldn't mind trying something different where both bailey and diaby are kept in wider positions. Bit more of a 4-2-3-1 I guess. Let mcginn roam around and get some more width into our play. Martinez Konsa Carlos Torres Digne Kamara Luiz Diaby Mcginn Bailey Watkins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 We used to be able to play it around at the back and pull opponents out of position before releasing to Luiz or McGinn who would have acres of space to turn and dictate play. We were never particularly quick but we created space to play. I think teams have worked out how to shut down our midfield options. Having Torres back will help by being another player who can step up with the ball and do this play maker role if our midfield is closed down but I think we’re still not likely to see the results we were getting at the start of the season when we were a bit of an unknown quantity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eholm Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Spot on. I think we’re about to see a new phase in our development and it may take some time to come to fruition. UE knows more about tactics/systems than most of us have forgotten so I suspect this is no surprise to him. He has been telling us all season that we are contenders for top 7….he knew we would plateau at some stage. Now that teams are becoming very effective at blocking our passing lanes in CM, I don’t think we’ll see Youri on the left again anytime soon. We have to increase our wide options so suspect Bailey will now get a run on the right and Youri will move behind Ollie - thus then also gives us some extra central creativity so we can hurt teams in different areas of the pitch. Diaby needs more work on the SS position and Cash is not able to provide us with the threat on the RHS we need if we have no natural winger on that side. Obviously I could be completely wrong but UE is all about slow, measured control and then quick decisive moves to create attacks. The 4 CM system he played last night gave us neither tbh and resulted in us looking slow and ponderous with a lack of that wide or forward option with Newcastle going man to man in midfield. I still believe we will have a decent end to the season but it will take a few games now to reset, adapt and kick on again. Progression is never completely linear and this plateau we have reached is all part of that development process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cridontour Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, TheMightyVillans said: Seems like we have been worked out with this box midfield at the moment. Seems like we might need another plan with a bit of a formation tweak. Wouldn't mind trying something different where both bailey and diaby are kept in wider positions. Bit more of a 4-2-3-1 I guess. Let mcginn roam around and get some more width into our play. Martinez Konsa Carlos Torres Digne Kamara Luiz Diaby Mcginn Bailey Watkins I agree. This 4-4-1-1 with 4 central midfielders isn’t working. The two up top look isolated and our attacking intensity is none existent, it’s all too slow and predictable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 We need to change the system. Maybe try 2 wingers or a diamond instead of a box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I do miss a good 4-2-3-1 system where the wingers square their full backs up and one of the 2/3 central midfielders plays more as a 10. Relying on our fullbacks for all our width and having Diaby and Watkins play so centrally is not working. We’re also incredibly dull to watch and our playing out from the back is so poor at times. Emery needs to change things. Tielemans as a narrow midfielder doesn’t consistently work, Diaby is out of form, Cash can’t beat a man or cross the ball etc. etc. The high line is also getting beaten time and time again now. We need to change it. First time Emery needs to properly change things in my book. I don’t like our style of play at all and I’ve been white vocal on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Our midfield is massively letting us down. Way too passive and it’s easy for teams to coast by them and attack our weaker defensive points. Big names need to step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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