Captain_Townsend Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Mings is the biggest blow we have had in years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chine Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Wondering whether the recent European nights are already draining the squad , we are way off the pace in all positions looking jaded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan95 Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Naïve that we're trying to play an idealistic way against everybody. In a match away to a top team you can not be dallying and losing the ball in your own box in the first couple of minutes. Also the high line with no pressure on the ball. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 27 minutes ago, villan95 said: Also the high line with no pressure on the ball. That high line is going to get torn apart by the top teams in the league. We need to adjust when we are playing better teams. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Three takeaways 1) No pressure, high line. Enough said about it but won’t beat it to death. But contrary to what others are saying, you still can play it against top sides. The mismatch is having the personnel to do so. Buendia and JJ are huge misses here and Diaby is a skilled number 10 but by every metric, not a great presser. This is where there’s a contrast of how Unai wants to play and what personnel he has. It’s one thing to give instruction to press but another thing to have the players to do so. 2) Ineffective build up from deep - Unai wants to build from deep to draw pressure and create transition opportunities. But similar to Newcastle, our forward players lost almost every duel and made poor decisions to try and hold up the ball. Unai needs to figure this out as both Newcastle and Liverpool have covered Luiz and Kamara and then pressed our back line to try and get them to play into Watkins and Diaby to roll them and succeeded. 3) Set piece weakness - for several weeks, we have been very susceptible to the 3rd goal by Liverpool. Specifically, the near post flick on or the near post screen leaving the back post wide open. Everton and Hibs almost scored this way and Liverpool essentially scored twice this way. This needs to be addressed ASAP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rightdm00 Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 hour ago, villan95 said: Naïve that we're trying to play an idealistic way against everybody. In a match away to a top team you can not be dallying and losing the ball in your own box in the first couple of minutes. Also the high line with no pressure on the ball. Desperately need someone to fill the energy Buendia brought in the press. Trent in the first half had all the time in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Chine said: Wondering whether the recent European nights are already draining the squad , we are way off the pace in all positions looking jaded The Hibs games were a complete stroll in the park, we had far tougher games in pre season. Also minimal travelling compared to going to Poland or Bosnia so that can't be used as an excuse at all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 The high line needs to be tweaked for sure. We're far more vulnerable without Mings recovery pace at the heart of it. Middle of last season we went to Spurs on NYD and low blocked a quick attack to death in the first half so that was a classic away performance and comfortable win in the end. Need to be doing similar at Chelsea in three weeks as Forest won in that manner yesterday and they'e miles off Liverpool's standard in final third. Don't change anything and we'll continue to get exposed at other top teams home and away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catanzaro Posted September 3, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted September 3, 2023 At the end of last season and especially at home against Newcastle we looked like we had strength in central midfield.. Dougie and SJM were both getting in to the oppositions faces etc.. what has happened this season against decent opposition?? I know we’re missing Mings but that doesn’t affect what those two are doing to get hold of the ball in midfield.. it feels to me that our shape needs to change somehow against the good sides that enables us to get at them and not be passive.. Any insight would be appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 7 minutes ago, Steero113 said: He knows exactly what his best defence is. Problem is, half of them are out injured. Can’t believe how many people are missing this point . Mings injury is not just an injury of one player but the whole organisation and leadership of the back line . Devastating injury for the club . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Conceding eight goals in two away games, albeit against two top sides, is a concern and will be for Emery. We need to find a way to toughen up and become hard to beat again. We’ll do this against the bottom ten or so sides, but Emery needs to work out quickly how we should do this against the top teams. What’s happened to defending with a back six and soaking up pressure like we did so well against Spurs and Brighton away last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 We were rock solid during that 15 or so games to close out last season. Conceded only a handful of goals. Of that back 4, only Ezri Konsa remains. Things to work on, especially knowing when and when not to play that high line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 53 minutes ago, ferguson1 said: Conceding eight goals in two away games, albeit against two top sides, is a concern and will be for Emery. We need to find a way to toughen up and become hard to beat again. We’ll do this against the bottom ten or so sides, but Emery needs to work out quickly how we should do this against the top teams. What’s happened to defending with a back six and soaking up pressure like we did so well against Spurs and Brighton away last season? It is a definite concern. I think Unai’s plan was to start the season with a very similar team to that that finished last season, while slowly integrating the new signings. Sadly that plan was scuppered over the summer with injuries to JJ and Buendia, quickly followed by Mings. Mings and Buendia being big losses due to the timeframes involved. That has taken away the chance of gradual integration of individual players against the weaker teams, and thrown the organisation and understanding built up during the previous campaign out the window. Unai is almost back to square one with a lot of new players getting to know each other and their roles within the team. I trust given time we will see this improve again, but will admit it is concerning. We need Pau Torres to get up to speed very quickly now, and hope Carlos isn’t too badly injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 The high line and the defence in general are two huge issues for him. Mings was awesome at it and could recover with his pace and strength even when it failed. Torres doesn’t have that pace and a few fancy passes aside, I’m not quite sure what his defensive attributes are. He’s slow, weak and apparently not great in the air either. They are the three things I’d look for in a centre half before even considering how good they are on the ball. Maybe I’m a dinosaur and just don’t ‘get it’ but a high line with Torres and Carlos is going to cost us big this season unless we change. I’m all for controlling games and building from the back but mistakes at the back are being exposed and we’ve conceded a lot of goals in the first 4 matches. I have full faith in Emery to fix it, as long as he isn’t stubborn. He’s been dealt a cruel hand with early injuries to Mings, Moreno and Ramsey and we’re feeling that. Torres at £36m should be able to deputise for Mings but right now, he’s miles off it. We just feel unbalanced at the moment. McGinn is far better on the right of midfield and it just seems to throw the team off having to play Bailey on the right or playing this 3-5-2. Again, all for a 3-5-2 formation but it feels cobbled together to mask the deficiencies we have in the back line. We’ll still be able to beat half the teams in the league regardless of system - given the quality we have - but it’s tough being battered by teams we should be more competitive against in Liverpool and Newcastle. I’m rambling. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said: The high line and the defence in general are two huge issues for him. Mings was awesome at it and could recover with his pace and strength even when it failed. Torres doesn’t have that pace and a few fancy passes aside, I’m not quite sure what his defensive attributes are. He’s slow, weak and apparently not great in the air either. They are the three things I’d look for in a centre half before even considering how good they are on the ball. Maybe I’m a dinosaur and just don’t ‘get it’ but a high line with Torres and Carlos is going to cost us big this season unless we change. I’m all for controlling games and building from the back but mistakes at the back are being exposed and we’ve conceded a lot of goals in the first 4 matches. I have full faith in Emery to fix it, as long as he isn’t stubborn. He’s been dealt a cruel hand with early injuries to Mings, Moreno and Ramsey and we’re feeling that. Torres at £36m should be able to deputise for Mings but right now, he’s miles off it. We just feel unbalanced at the moment. McGinn is far better on the right of midfield and it just seems to throw the team off having to play Bailey on the right or playing this 3-5-2. Again, all for a 3-5-2 formation but it feels cobbled together to mask the deficiencies we have in the back line. We’ll still be able to beat half the teams in the league regardless of system - given the quality we have - but it’s tough being battered by teams we should be more competitive against in Liverpool and Newcastle. I’m rambling. Rambling but right. Unai needs to figure out his best team. Unfortunate with injuries but trying to find the right system to fit his best players is what needs to be done to beat the top half teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farlz Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 We aren't playing a different formation. It's the exact same 442 just with Cash playing as the winger. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Just now, Farlz said: We aren't playing a different formation. It's the exact same 442 just with Cash playing as the winger. It’s the same formation but far different players in different roles. Diaby is elite in the attacking half but is struggling in the high press build up. Cash at RM is anonymous in the same phase. Same with McGinn. Playing deep build up is fine but it is not suiting the players in their current roles when we face an effective press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliseav Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 1 hour ago, ferguson1 said: Conceding eight goals in two away games, albeit against two top sides, is a concern and will be for Emery. We need to find a way to toughen up and become hard to beat again. We’ll do this against the bottom ten or so sides, but Emery needs to work out quickly how we should do this against the top teams. What’s happened to defending with a back six and soaking up pressure like we did so well against Spurs and Brighton away last season? Mings huge for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliseav Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 Mings was huge loss for us and super unai. but when you go to Newcastle and Liverpool you have to fight for the right to party. we haven’t in either game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MellbergsBeard Posted September 3, 2023 Share Posted September 3, 2023 2 hours ago, ferguson1 said: Conceding eight goals in two away games, albeit against two top sides, is a concern and will be for Emery. We need to find a way to toughen up and become hard to beat again. We’ll do this against the bottom ten or so sides, but Emery needs to work out quickly how we should do this against the top teams. What’s happened to defending with a back six and soaking up pressure like we did so well against Spurs and Brighton away last season? There’s no point defending with a back 6 when we concede within the first 5 minutes of our 2 difficult games. the early goals have changed our game plans. I watch alot of football and I don’t see any team get punished for mistakes as we do! I’m sure it’s my claret and blue specs though. these things take time, we have the right person in the job finally we just need to trust the process and stick with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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