Wayne Rooney

[Jonesy7211]

Was never the same player after Fergie left utd. I think that could be said of a lot a players that either left utd whilst he was manager or those that stayed after Fergie retired.

It's well know he never looked after himself off the field, but the game is littered with players like that. Just a shame we never got to see what he could have been. 

[TrentVilla]

2 minutes ago, Jonesy7211 said:

Was never the same player after Fergie left utd. I think that could be said of a lot a players that either left utd whilst he was manager or those that stayed after Fergie retired.

It's well know he never looked after himself off the field, but the game is littered with players like that. Just a shame we never got to see what he could have been. 

He was a fading player way before Fergie went.

[John]

He was at his.best when he was a youngster (when he was on the losing side against us in the Youth Cup Final and for a few years after that). He didn't "kick on"" and was much the same player during the rest of his playing career, for me he peaked early, rather than at 26/27 as is the norm. 

In my opinion, he doesn't stand out as one of the greatest English strikers, when compared with strikers like Kane now, or the likes of Shearer, Lineker and Greaves in the past. He will also have a very tough introduction to management at Derby, who have sadly gone backwards since their play off final defeat. 

[Jonesy7211]

Just now, TrentVilla said:

He was a fading player way before Fergie went.

I understand your point, but I think he was a victim of taking on more team responsibility after some quality players had left. I don't doubt that if he'd looked after himself better when he was younger he could have remained more explosive for longer, but his passing game really developed in Fergie's last few years and Rooney started to stay deeper.

[Rino8]

10 minutes ago, John said:

He was at his.best when he was a youngster (when he was on the losing side against us in the Youth Cup Final and for a few years after that). He didn't "kick on"" and was much the same player during the rest of his playing career, for me he peaked early, rather than at 26/27 as is the norm. 

In my opinion, he doesn't stand out as one of the greatest English strikers, when compared with strikers like Kane now, or the likes of Shearer, Lineker and Greaves in the past. He will also have a very tough introduction to management at Derby, who have sadly gone backwards since their play off final defeat. 

Think you'll struggle to find people saying Kane was as talented as Rooney.

 

He's also been the manager of Derby for a few months and actually has been doing quite well after their terrible start.

 

You not been keeping up?

[TrentVilla]

11 minutes ago, Jonesy7211 said:

I understand your point, but I think he was a victim of taking on more team responsibility after some quality players had left. I don't doubt that if he'd looked after himself better when he was younger he could have remained more explosive for longer, but his passing game really developed in Fergie's last few years and Rooney started to stay deeper.

He played deeper because he could no longer cut it up front, it wasn’t sacrifice it was necessity.

[villa4europe]

25 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

He played deeper because he could no longer cut it up front, it wasn’t sacrifice it was necessity.

I thought that was his game personally, he wanted to be Roy of the Rovers, he wanted to be the main striker, he wanted to drift out wide, he wanted to drop in to the pockets of space in the final third, he wanted to come 10 yards in to our own half to collect the ball off the CBs and stay spraying it about

The crazy thing is that he was good enough to do all of those things but I thought he was often the best and the worst thing about England at the same time, especially in the big games when the chips were down, he was a ball hawk, always wanted it, too often in big games to the detriment of the team for me, we should have won something with him in 2004 and maybe 2006 too

some of my most disappointing England memories involve him and Gerrard on one man missions covering every blade of grass but not actually trying to play good team football, if they were both on one then we were shit

I do also think he's another PL player who was the epitome of the crash bang wallop 100mph PL, again same as Gerrard, kick the ball 100mph 70 yards, smash in volleys at 100mph, hit tackles at 100mph, it was great to watch but not always what football was all about, peps barca team and the Spanish national team made it look a bit defunct at times 

All of that said like he said he was good enough to do it all, he was brilliant at times, in flashes the best English player in my lifetime, "man child" is a great description of him, not seen a 16 year old like that before or since, he deserved the buzz and lived up to it

 

[VillaJ100]

1 hour ago, The Fun Factory said:

Made some comments in the Championship thread about Wazza. You can't knock his record but he was too inconsistent for me to be labelled genuinely world class. He did have  a couple of great seasons but more often it was a streak of 10-15 games and then looked average. From about 30 he was shot, compared to Ronaldo at 35 who is still going strong. Also for England bar 2004 he was rubbish when it came to the crunch.

Or Ibra who is arguably better than ever at 39

[Genie]

It’s crazy to think he’s England’s top scorer because all my memories of him are of him letting us down.

[Zatman]

5 minutes ago, Genie said:

It’s crazy to think he’s England’s top scorer because all my memories of him are of him letting us down.

I think as an outsider Rooney was one of the lesser problems in that England squad, yet the media put all the pressure on him a bit like Messi at Argentina. But he needed to get the ball, England so many times played the best players and not the best team and this always left a completely unbalanced midfield. Managers afraid to make big calls, Lampard and Gerrard never worked ever and must have been tried about 50 times. Gerrard while great in the Premier League was a liability at international level with his Hollywood balls

[John]

2 hours ago, Rino8 said:

Think you'll struggle to find people saying Kane was as talented as Rooney.

 

He's also been the manager of Derby for a few months and actually has been doing quite well after their terrible start.

 

You not been keeping up?

Given the choice, I would prefer Kane up front. I admit that Rooney looked the better prospect in their early years in the game, but Kane overtook Rooney for me as he developed more as a player in his 20s than Rooney did, in my opinion.

I have been keeping up. He would have struggled to do much worse than Cocu had been doing. Being caretaker manager (or one of them), is often easier than having the job full time. I had actually expected him to make a bigger impact than he has to date, but hope given time he can stabilise the club and get them looking up, rather than down. 

[The Fun Factory]

57 minutes ago, Genie said:

It’s crazy to think he’s England’s top scorer because all my memories of him are of him letting us down.

He usually did the job in the qualifiers but not for the tournaments. 2010 and 2014 he was poor and he was in his 20s and therefore career peak.  Bar Becks and Red Nev a lot of Man U players in that era I would say underperformed for England, I wonder if that was the Fergie effect.

[will87]

He was that good at 18 he should have ended up an all-time great. It never quite happened, still an excellent player of course but mostly for Man Utd, did very little for England after Euro 2004. You could argue he peaked as a teenager, he was better than Ronaldo when he joined Man Utd, from then on he just coasted really.

[Keyblade]

He was so gifted he could play that #10 role and be better than almost everyone, but I think his best season was the 09/10 when he played up top as the lone striker after Ronaldo left. He was deadly. He never saw himself as an out and out #9, and maybe ultimately that was for the worst. Could have probably tacked another 50 goals to his tally if he did.

[KAZZAM]

He has huge motivation problems in my eyes and has been on downward spiral for a long term, I would compare him to Gabby in that regard. 

Seems an easy decision to 'hang the boots up'  and take an convient managers job. Also think he might have short term success as a manager but ultimately he hasnt got alot going on upstairs and will get found out. 

Think he was still a great player and that season he kept scoring with his head was insane. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by KAZZAM

[icouldtelltheworld]

Remember watching the documentary that came out when he became England's record goal scorer, you can easily forget just how good he was as a teenager/young man. World class on his day.

My first memory of international football is the 1998 world Cup, I'd have to say Rooney is the best England player that i can remember in that time by some distance. If he'd been around in 2002 alongside Beckham, Owen et al then England would've been serious world Cup contenders. 

FWIW I think he'll surprise people and make a decent coach. Always got the impression he's a little more intelligent than the average fan's impression of him. What a career though, good luck to him.

Remember being 10 or 11 when he scored that goal against Arsenal. Something quite sobering when you realise that if you'd made it as a footballer you'd be approaching retirement!

Edited January 16, 2021 by icouldtelltheworld

[One For The Road]

10 hours ago, PaulC said:

Theres no doubting his talent and career but for me doesnt rank with the Greats of English football because apart from 2004 he never did anything in major finals. Kane, Shearer, Robson, Gascoigne, Charlton and Greaves all rank ahead of him for me. 

England's record goalscorer "doesn't rank with the greats like Kane and Shearer" is one of the maddest things I've read on this forum on a long while.

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, One For The Road said:

England's record goalscorer "doesn't rank with the greats like Kane and Shearer" is one of the maddest things I've read on this forum on a long while.

You can understand the sentiment, it's kind of weird thinking about how he's England's record goalscorer considering he hasn't had a good tournament other than Euro 2004 when he was 18 where he scored 4 goals. He only scored 3 more major tournament goals after this, in 3 different tournaments. The bulk of his goals scored were in qualification, usually against the minnows of Europe. I think the biggest country he scored a competitive goal against was Croatia at Euro 04, and I don't think they were even that good back then. He really disappointed on the major stage where players like Shearer and Kane to an extent stepped up. 

[One For The Road]

13 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

You can understand the sentiment, it's kind of weird thinking about how he's England's record goalscorer considering he hasn't had a good tournament other than Euro 2004 when he was 18 where he scored 4 goals. He only scored 3 more major tournament goals after this, in 3 different tournaments. The bulk of his goals scored were in qualification, usually against the minnows of Europe. I think the biggest country he scored a competitive goal against was Croatia at Euro 04, and I don't think they were even that good back then. He really disappointed on the major stage where players like Shearer and Kane to an extent stepped up. 

What has Kane done at international level? Other than from spot kicks? And look at the teams he has scored against. Talk about Minnows. Panama? Tunisia?

Rooney was a phenomenal player and will be remembered at such. Kane has won sod all and done very little for England at this stage. Calling Kane an England great, as the previous poster alluded to, is just crazy.

[Keyblade]

23 minutes ago, One For The Road said:

What has Kane done at international level? Other than from spot kicks? And look at the teams he has scored against. Talk about Minnows. Panama? Tunisia?

Rooney was a phenomenal player and will be remembered at such. Kane has won sod all and done very little for England at this stage. Calling Kane an England great, as the previous poster alluded to, is just crazy.

Yeah I wouldn't call Kane an England great either, just trying to follow the logic there.