chrisp65 Posted April 29 Author Share Posted April 29 Just now, sidcow said: They must have just seen right through him, all the delays and excuses. And I assume his party wouldn't allow any kind of compromise with them. Assume he was just screwed either way. I never once got the impression he was any sort of wily political operator. He just always looked like he was about to cry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 14 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I never once got the impression he was any sort of wily political operator. He just always looked like he was about to cry. didn't he win via the Starmer process .. I.e he was slightly less bat shit than the other candidates ? presumably , those other bat shit candidates will now be the only options going forward , so Scotland will see if they can break the Tory party monopoly on changing leaders as often as a northerner has a bath 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 (edited) 54 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: didn't he win via the Starmer process .. I.e he was slightly less bat shit than the other candidates ? presumably , those other bat shit candidates will now be the only options going forward , so Scotland will see if they can break the Tory party monopoly on changing leaders as often as a northerner has a bath No, he won by being the preferred / continuity candidate of the SNP establishment. And even then only just scraped the victory by a couple of percentage points. The SNP's biggest problem is that they have about three different varieties of batshit, all of which are incompatible with each other, so I reckon we'll see a couple more changes of leader before this time next year. Devout Presbyterianism and performative we're-more-progressive-than-Labour identity politics is not an easy electoral coalition to keep together. Edited April 29 by ml1dch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 29 Moderator Share Posted April 29 4 minutes ago, ml1dch said: No, he won by being the preferred / continuity candidate of the SNP establishment. And even then only just scraped the victory by a couple of percentage points. The SNP's biggest problem is that they have about three different varieties of batshit, all of which are incompatible with each other, so I reckon we'll see a couple more changes of leader before this time next year. Devout Presbyterianism and performative we're-more-progressive-than-Labour identity politics is not an easy electoral coalition to keep together. Yep, was in the middle of typing similar, its a much broader church than Labour even The SNPs problem is also its raison d'etre, it's a single issue party and right now, that single issue isn't quite as popular as it used to be regardless of the infighting and the sleaze Just like any broad church its harder to keep the coalitions together when things are not going your way much like in both Labour and Tory but amplified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 30 minutes ago, bickster said: Yep, was in the middle of typing similar, its a much broader church than Labour even The SNPs problem is also its raison d'etre, it's a single issue party and right now, that single issue isn't quite as popular as it used to be regardless of the infighting and the sleaze Just like any broad church its harder to keep the coalitions together when things are not going your way much like in both Labour and Tory but amplified Also, everyone has a hierachy of political needs, and allegiances can potentially switch depending on what you think is most important at any given time. There will always be a small rump of "independence at any cost" SNP backers, but I reckon a huge amount of the SNP support over the last decade has been "anything is better than having the Tories in charge of Scotland, if that's independence or another party in Westminster then let's do that". And this will see that pendulum swing towards the latter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted April 29 VT Supporter Share Posted April 29 1 hour ago, bickster said: The SNPs problem is also its raison d'etre, it's a single issue party and right now, that single issue isn't quite as popular as it used to be regardless of the infighting and the sleaze Being based "down-south" as we'd call it, I don't have a vote but I can be sure that as much as I'm notionally in favour of self-government for the motherland, the SNP do not reflect my views any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 Just now, choffer said: Being based "down-south" as we'd call it, I don't have a vote but I can be sure that as much as I'm notionally in favour of self-government for the motherland, the SNP do not reflect my views any more. You can be sure that there's a lot of people daan saaf that would jump at the chance to vote to break from the London shitshow. We're well on the way to becoming a city-state in all but name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 No nation ever became stronger by breaking itself asunder. I’ve never subscribed to this tub thumping, flag waving nationalism.Be it Scotland , England or Wales. I have always regarded myself as British, except when it comes to football of course 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted April 29 VT Supporter Share Posted April 29 14 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: You can be sure that there's a lot of people daan saaf that would jump at the chance to vote to break from the London shitshow. We're well on the way to becoming a city-state in all but name. Why'd you think there are so many of us Scots down in that there London? Land of milk and honey, innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 1 minute ago, meregreen said: No nation ever became stronger by breaking itself asunder. I’ve never subscribed to this tub thumping, flag waving nationalism.Be it Scotland , England or Wales. I have always regarded myself as British, except when it comes to football of course You’d think Brexit would be a warning but some still don’t quite get it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted April 29 Moderator Share Posted April 29 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: He so clearly needed them that ditching the Green Agenda so thoroughly was such a dumb move Well, no. I mean yes and no. The Green's policies were very significantly adding to the drop in the polls of the Scot Gov't. Not just the net zero stuff, but all the stuff on Trans and wotnot. I'm not passing personal judgement on those policies with this "no", just pointing out that they were extremely unpopular in the Polls, and with a General election coming up, where loads of constituencies in Scotland held by the SNP are (and were last time) very marginal for them. So that's the "no" part. The yes part is (passing personal judgement) on the environmental side of it, yeah, dumb, perhaps. The other stuff, not so much. It was monumentally badly worded their new law, and just out of kilter with reality, IMO. No wonder that part was very unpopular away from twitterers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 29 VT Supporter Share Posted April 29 48 minutes ago, meregreen said: No nation ever became stronger by breaking itself asunder. I’ve never subscribed to this tub thumping, flag waving nationalism.Be it Scotland , England or Wales. I have always regarded myself as British, except when it comes to football of course This for me, too. And as much European as British. Balkanisation is not the way forward. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 29 Author Share Posted April 29 Independence is normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Independence is normal. Perhaps we should reconstitute Mercia, Wessex, Northumberland and Danelaw then. Unity, sadly, is rare, due to human weakness. But it is always better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 29 Author Share Posted April 29 8 minutes ago, meregreen said: Perhaps we should reconstitute Mercia, Wessex, Northumberland and Danelaw then. Unity, sadly, is rare, due to human weakness. But it is always better. Perhaps we should take Ireland back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 17 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Perhaps we should take Ireland back. I wonder if ancestory.com would overload with Irish people trying to find a French grandmother so they can stay European Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Perhaps we should take Ireland back. You miss my point completely. I respect Irelands right to independence, I hope one day to see that Island united.I would respect any decision by the Sots to go their own way, if that is their wish. I argue simply that it would diminish us as a nation if we put barriers between us that don’t need to be there. I’m a trade unionist, one of our great tenets is, unity is strength. I believe that goes for all the peoples on this island we live on. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 29 Author Share Posted April 29 25 minutes ago, meregreen said: You miss my point completely. I respect Irelands right to independence, I hope one day to see that Island united.I would respect any decision by the Sots to go their own way, if that is their wish. I argue simply that it would diminish us as a nation if we put barriers between us that don’t need to be there. I’m a trade unionist, one of our great tenets is, unity is strength. I believe that goes for all the peoples on this island we live on. As a trade unionist you’ll appreciate how galling it must be to always vote left and almost always get right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 29 Moderator Share Posted April 29 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: As a trade unionist you’ll appreciate how galling it must be to always vote left and almost always get right. That’s not particularly true, Since 1960 there have been sixteen general elections the Tories are two up with nine victories to seven Labour. If Labour win as expected in the next one, that'll be seventeen elections and there'll be one victory between them. Even if you take it back to the end of WW2 the Tories are only currently three up in a series of twenty-one Of course it depends where your jumping in point is as to how you perceive it but the idea that we nearly always get Tory governments is demonstrably incorrect 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: As a trade unionist you’ll appreciate how galling it must be to always vote left and almost always get right. I’m old enough to know that isn’t true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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