Freedom for Tooting! And other similar nutty fringe communities

[sidcow]

3 hours ago, Cizzler said:

I wonder why secession/independence is a big issue in the U.K. (Scots, Welsh, N.I all have serious independent movements) but it barely registers in the USA.

Would California, Texas, New York, etc be stronger independently than in the USA? Do States have a greater degree of autonomy/power within the Federal system than our devolved assemblies? Or is there just less emotive baggage/more patriotism.

Doesn't each state have much more autonomy than we do here anyway?   They are fairly independent I think.

[icouldtelltheworld]

3 hours ago, Cizzler said:

I wonder why secession/independence is a big issue in the U.K. (Scots, Welsh, N.I all have serious independent movements) but it barely registers in the USA.

Would California, Texas, New York, etc be stronger independently than in the USA? Do States have a greater degree of autonomy/power within the Federal system than our devolved assemblies? Or is there just less emotive baggage/more patriotism.

There are occasional murmurings and disparate movements advocating for Californian independence. They tend to be premised on the fact that if California were it's own country, it would have the fifth largest economy in the world (whether that would remain the case if they left the US is another matter altogether).

I think that more recently there has been a focus on California being politically at odds with much of the rest of America (particularly during the Trump years). I know that some proposals have advocated taking a few of the other 'progressive' Western states with them if they were to leave.

It won't happen, but it's an interesting thought experiment. You'd wonder whether Republicans could potentially get on board with the idea of a Democrat state with significant weighting in the electoral college seceeding, as it would ward of their coming electoral impotence for a little longer.

[bickster]

Isn't there a Texan succession movement within the ruling Republican Party as well?

[chrisp65]

44 minutes ago, Cizzler said:

Where do you draw the line here, though. Each constituency is only 1 vote out of 650 - would each be better off taking responsibility for themselves?

Surely there are some economies of scale that comes from collaborating together? Or is Wales' population just the optimum size of a modern nation state.

 

I’m not sure there is such a thing as an optimum size, there’s just whether the government functions or not.

In Covid, the then PM wouldn’t pick up the phone and speak to the First Minister. When Tata announced 3,000 redundancies at Port Talbot, the current PM wouldn’t pick up the phone to the First Minister. When the leader of the opposition was asked about the £4 billion contribution Wales made to HS2 he has said this won’t be discussed. Monies extracted by the Crown Estate? Not to be discussed. This isn’t a recent ‘bad bad tories’ thing, it’s not a fashion that will pass, it’s just current examples of what has gone on for a lifetime.

Should we just hope the current system sort of gets a bit better, it just needs a little more time, give it another hundred years?

In my opinion, time’s up. Let’s be great neighbours.

 

 

[sidcow]

22 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

I’m not sure there is such a thing as an optimum size, there’s just whether the government functions or not.

In Covid, the then PM wouldn’t pick up the phone and speak to the First Minister. When Tata announced 3,000 redundancies at Port Talbot, the current PM wouldn’t pick up the phone to the First Minister. When the leader of the opposition was asked about the £4 billion contribution Wales made to HS2 he has said this won’t be discussed. Monies extracted by the Crown Estate? Not to be discussed. This isn’t a recent ‘bad bad tories’ thing, it’s not a fashion that will pass, it’s just current examples of what has gone on for a lifetime.

Should we just hope the current system sort of gets a bit better, it just needs a little more time, give it another hundred years?

In my opinion, time’s up. Let’s be great neighbours.

 

 

I know for example that there is a substantial investment in Wales historically from Japanese companies.  Why did these companies end up there?  Were there grants from the UK Government.   You are talking like everything has been one way bit I'm sure there have been a lot of inward investment from the UK as well.

[chrisp65]

20 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I know for example that there is a substantial investment in Wales historically from Japanese companies.  Why did these companies end up there?  Were there grants from the UK Government.   You are talking like everything has been one way bit I'm sure there have been a lot of inward investment from the UK as well.

For clarity, are you asking me to put the case for the opposition? I’d have a look at that word ‘grants’.
 

I’m not saying there has been nothing. I’m saying that it has been significantly less, and less strategically planned, than if a nation was doing it for themselves and not receiving grace from others, grants as you’ve correctly described it. Famously, when the mines and the docks and the steel plants were closed down in the 80’s there was then some limited inward investment in to what had been Tiger Bay. In the words of the Welsh Secretary (Westminster appointed) ‘that’s enough toys for Wales’.

Another ‘Welsh Secretary’ blocked the expansion of Cardiff Wales airport as it could be detrimental to Bristol.

The list is boringly long. But perhaps this is another way of looking at it, if Swansea was in charge of allocating budget for Swansea, Birmingham, and Manchester. Plus Swansea got to nominate the representative for Birmingham and the advocate for Manchester. If that were the case, could you imagine that over time Swansea might end up being the greater beneficiary? If you lived in Birmingham or Manchester, would you be happy with that happening over a timescale that spanned generations? I guess you could be practical, and move to Swansea. Making Swansea bigger, and around we go again.