blandy Posted June 24, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 24, 2020 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: In the context of someone calling him an utter word removed on the back of not paying staff money they had earned , then yes I’d say it was important , for the sake of this particular discussion If you mean my post Tony, I already thanked @KentVillan for correcting me and replied to him before your subsequent post. Additionally, my opinion of Spoons man isn’t based just on my incorrect recollection of his furlough actions, but on his approach to the virus, his Brexit behaviour, his attitude to his suppliers, and his general persona. I’m guilty of allowing that view and my poor recollection of the news story from March to think the worst of him. Mea Culpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) .... Edited June 25, 2020 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 5 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: 2020 is nearly complete, but it won't finally be over until they've nationalised sausages. What? They're going to just chuck themselves into the grinder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 (edited) ... Edited June 25, 2020 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 13 hours ago, blandy said: If you mean my post Tony, I already thanked @KentVillan for correcting me and replied to him before your subsequent post. so , you're saying , its not just us here I hadn't seen that post at the time , but have now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) ... Edited June 25, 2020 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 15 hours ago, tonyh29 said: In the context of someone calling him an utter word removed on the back of not paying staff money they had earned , then yes I’d say it was important , for the sake of this particular discussion Actually, you and I were both right and wrong. Yes, in response to blandy's specific comment about being paid for work already done, i.e. up until the pubs were shut, it seems that the article says they would do that but it also says that they'd not pay anything beyond that until the government, via the furlough scheme, paid up - and as I was responding to your post saying 'So do I take that there is no proof of him refusing to pay staff then ?' then, in that article, there is proof of him, at least temporarily, refusing to pay staff (until Wetherspoons had been paid by the government). He also doesn't make it clear, at that time, what his company would do with payments to staff that they'd be contractually obliged to pay regardless of any furlough scheme after the 22nd March. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 26, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 26, 2020 Intu, the people behind the biggest shopping centres in the country, are ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 26, 2020 Author Share Posted June 26, 2020 10 minutes ago, Chindie said: Intu, the people behind the biggest shopping centres in the country, are ****. That’ll be a major spanner in the plan of getting people spending again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 26, 2020 Author Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) Royal Mail are one of those companies that appear to have an exceptionally militant workforce and have not moved with the times at all. They seem to think they are exempt from evolving to remain relevant and competitive. I’m not sure how they are managing to be in a mess when everybody in country is getting about 5x more stuff delivered now than before. Our post is very sporadic at the moment. Quote Royal Mail is to cut 2,000 management jobs as it struggles to deal with the effects of the coronavirus crisis. The cuts, about a fifth of the company's management roles, aim to save about £130m in costs from next year. Royal Mail said the pandemic accelerated the trend of more parcels and fewer letters being sent, and it had not adapted quickly enough to that. The company's challenges have included former boss Rico Back making a surprise exit from the business in May. The job losses will hit senior roles hardest, with half of them set to go, and will mainly fall on so-called "back-office" jobs, including finance, commercial and IT. Frontline postal staff are unlikely to be affected because Royal Mail needs to preserve "quality of service", a spokesman said. More on the link Edited June 26, 2020 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 By Royal Mail evolving, do you mean imposing poorer working conditions for the foot soldiers to match the shit pay and conditions of the other companies? Mail and parcel delivery appears to be all about a race to the bottom for the everyday staff whilst maximising profit. Or does that guy running to and from his Nissan Almera at 8:00pm delivering shit have comparable pay and conditions to Royal Mail staff? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 26, 2020 Author Share Posted June 26, 2020 14 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: By Royal Mail evolving, do you mean imposing poorer working conditions for the foot soldiers to match the shit pay and conditions of the other companies? Mail and parcel delivery appears to be all about a race to the bottom for the everyday staff whilst maximising profit. Or does that guy running to and from his Nissan Almera at 8:00pm delivering shit have comparable pay and conditions to Royal Mail staff? Every business is about maximising profit. Most businesses move with the times and adapt. Parcel pickup from home, more drop off locations, delivery windows, late deliveries, good tracking, competitive pricing... RM are crap at almost all of that in my experience. I’m not sure what the relevance of the Nissan driver is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 26, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Genie said: Every business is about maximising profit. Not so. It's not even close. That's about as wrong as you can be. Whether it's fluffy hippy businesses having values around sustainability and paying a fair wage, or whether it's corporate entities seeking to minimise tax by creating losses, or others investing for the long term. Or whether it's businesses giving away products to the homeless or the NHS and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Genie said: That’ll be a major spanner in the plan of getting people spending again Hammerson have been courting them for years. It was only a couple of years ago they almost bought them for a few billion. I think a French operator was looking a year or two ago as well. Made no sense to invest at the time as they were over leveraged and the share prices were still plumetting but I don't see it being hard to sell now their value had bottomed out. It may well mean the estate being ripped up and more centres going back into local ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) Given the chance, I'll use Royal Mail. Maybe DPD, or UPS. The others are generally awful exploitative "employers" who's staff are paid peanuts, have shit conditions, and don't give a ****. Want to know how many times the postie has put my parcel in the bin on collection day? Because the **** at Yodel have done it to me 3 times. I felt so dirty when I'd watch an Amazon delivery driver in their clapped out car racing to my door and back to the car for their pitiful fee per parcel that I refuse to use them anymore. On top of being generally reliable, professional, and half decent employers, RM have the universal service obligations which doesn't weigh down other delivery companies. Edited June 26, 2020 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Genie said: Royal Mail are one of those companies that appear to have an exceptionally militant workforce and have not moved with the times at all. They seem to think they are exempt from evolving to remain relevant and competitive. I’m not sure how they are managing to be in a mess when everybody in country is getting about 5x more stuff delivered now than before. Our post is very sporadic at the moment. More on the link I remember those Dispatches undercover shows and subsequent ones. RM looked a **** mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Genie said: I’m not sure how they are managing to be in a mess when everybody in country is getting about 5x more stuff delivered now than before. Our post is very sporadic at the moment. ...Really? You're not sure how a massive unforeseen extra volume of parcels could be causing issues? It's been Christmas style post for 3 months on end. They should have got enough temps in by now really, and maybe they have, things are pretty much back to normal here on that front. But parcels aren't where RM make their money, they make far more profit on letters, and that's not what's spiking. And when we say they're "struggling" they only made £180m profit for the quarter. You've got to feel for those shareholders. I'd also keep in mind when they say they're letting go 2,000 managers, that's not a huge swathe of unnecessary middle management, as you might assume. In RM parlance, basically anyone that's not a postie or a customer service call handle is a "manager" as they're on the management salary structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Chindie said: Intu, the people behind the biggest shopping centres in the country, are ****. Eugh, Nottingham is now stuck with a half demolished Broadmarsh as the gateway to the city, after the council helped fund £20m for Intu to modernise it. Great job fellas. I didn't think it could get much worse than the shopping centre stinking of piss, and the most high end shop in it being a Boots. It was like the shopping centre that time forgot. It even had a **** Wimpy for **** sake. And now it's just kind of...there. Half demolished, locked up, and blocking the route from the train station in to the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 26, 2020 Author Share Posted June 26, 2020 27 minutes ago, blandy said: Not so. It's not even close. That's about as wrong as you can be. Whether it's fluffy hippy businesses having values around sustainability and paying a fair wage, or whether it's corporate entities seeking to minimise tax by creating losses, or others investing for the long term. Or whether it's businesses giving away products to the homeless or the NHS and so on. Aside from the hippy businesses (which probably make up a tiny, tiny percentages of businesses) most others are in it for profit. Lots of them have given away time, money or products during the pandemic but it is still an investment in their branding to get profits later. That is distracting from the mess at Royal Mail. As @Xela said and my good friend who works their too has told me, they are stuck on the dark ages and think they are still nationalised. 18 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Really? You're not sure how a massive unforeseen extra volume of parcels could be causing issues? It's been Christmas style post for 3 months on end. They should have got enough temps in by now really, and maybe they have, things are pretty much back to normal here on that front. But parcels aren't where RM make their money, they make far more profit on letters, and that's not what's spiking. This underlines the point. Short term they’ve had half a year to adjust to the changing buying habits of the general public. Longer term people have been sending less letters year on year for about 15 years. There’s no excuse for them saying they’ve failed to adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 26, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2020 46 minutes ago, Genie said: That is distracting from the mess at Royal Mail.... they are stuck on the dark ages and think they are still nationalised. This underlines the point. Short term they’ve had half a year to adjust to the changing buying habits of the general public. Longer term people have been sending less letters year on year for about 15 years. There’s no excuse for them saying they’ve failed to adapt. Yeah, up to a point, sure. It's people not companies who adapt or don't adapt, the way I look at it. A lot of post office employees have been there a long time and have the background of how things used to be. Managers too don't seem universally to be that good. Add in the changes in the world with electricity letters and intertweets and facetubes replacing letters, and parcel deliveries growing and you get a recipe for struggle, especially when new rivals spring up, without workers there being protected by Unions to look after their pay and conditions. The Post Office needs better management and more adaptable staff/unions if they are to protect their business and their employees in the long term. My postie is great though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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