Generic Virus Thread

[Genie]

7 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Neither does COVID when you've got the majority of the adult population and almost everyone in the most at risk groups vaccinated.

For the potentially troublesome strains, yes international travel needs to be very closely monitored and restricted where appropriate.

This is it.

The troublesome strains are the concern going forwards.

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, Xela said:

Unless you've been vaccinated against ebola, and can prove it, I'm afraid you are not allowed into your local for a pint of Spitfire and a pork pie. 

Deal with it  

Now that is what I call safety. 

[Xela]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

This is it.

The troublesome strains are the concern going forwards.

We can't constantly live in fear of this virus and its mutations. People aren't living at the moment, they are purely existing. 

If what we are doing now is how our future is going to be, I might as well hang myself. 

[Genie]

11 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Please take my comment with a caveat of taking the argument to it's extreme. But the point is that we are toeing a thin line here, and as soon as we make it compulsory to be vaccinated against COVID, where do we stop?

Would you like to introduce a Flu jab certificate or a Measels certificate?  

I don’t think certification is a good idea anyway, but they are different illnesses with different reaches.

We know how they behave in a world with no restrictions. It’s manageable.

Everytime we’ve taken the restrictions away during Covid illness and death have rocketed up and we have to put the brakes on immediately.

[bannedfromHandV]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

I don’t think certification is a good idea anyway, but they are different illnesses with different reaches.

We know how they behave in a world with no restrictions. It’s manageable.

Everytime we’ve taken the restrictions away during Covid illness and death have rocketed up and we have to put the brakes on immediately.

But that was pre-vaccination times?

[Davkaus]

I'd hope this is the final straight unless there's a strain that just resists the vaccine, because I'm with you Xela. I've never felt more like an economic resource and less like a person.

[Genie]

8 minutes ago, Xela said:

We can't constantly live in fear of this virus and its mutations. People aren't living at the moment, they are purely existing. 

If what we are doing now is how our future is going to be, I might as well hang myself. 

But “taking it on the chin” because we’re fed up isn’t a viable option because we *potentially* can’t treat all the people that will get sick.

We even struggle to store all the dead bodies.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Genie

[Genie]

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

But that was pre-vaccination times?

If the vaccines are effective against all the risks then there’s no reason not to remove restrictions. 
The expert opinion seems to be some of the strains might not be effective.

These strains are not that prevalent in the UK so opening up with strict international controls could be the way forward for a while.

Problem is, it seems like we don’t have strict international controls in place. We’ll probably introduce them after the horse has bolted.

[bannedfromHandV]

5 minutes ago, Genie said:

If the vaccines are effective against all the risks then there’s no reason not to remove restrictions. 
The expert opinion seems to be some of the strains might not be effective.

These strains are not that prevalent in the UK so opening up with strict international controls could be the way forward for a while.

Problem is, it seems like we don’t have strict international controls in place. We’ll probably introduce them after the horse has bolted.

I’m all for international controls and restrictions, personally speaking I don’t care if I never get on a plane again.

But domestically, it’s time to begin opening up again, people are at the end of their tether and this summer will be a tinderbox waiting for a match in terms of civil unrest and ‘rule’ breaking if things do not start to turn a corner in terms of our freedoms and liberties, or, just being able to visit a family member without fear of incurring a fine.

Edited March 26, 2021 by bannedfromHandV

[StefanAVFC]

As an expat, international restrictions stop me from seeing my family, based on the logic of mutations and vaccines not being enough, it would seem that some experts would rather me never see them ever again.

My nan died a couple of weeks ago, I'm not able to get back unless I really shell out. That's incredible considering this thing likely won't do a thing to me. 

I have my wedding planned for September; if they have these loose (but expensive) measures now, then fully restrict international travel past the summer, even with vaccines and vaccinated people, I will fly back, pay whatever needs to be paid, and riot myself. (not fully serious)

[Davkaus]

In some ways I regret being cautious enough to realise how ridiculous the relaxations were over Christmas, because I've not seen some of my family since entering tier 3 in October. You're damn right people are at the end of their tether.

[darrenm]

2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I’m all for international controls and restrictions, personally speaking I don’t care if I never get on a plane again.

But domestically, it’s time to begin opening up again, people are at the end of their tether and this summer will be a tinderbox waiting for a match in terms of civil unrest and ‘rule’ breaking if things do not start to turn a corner in terms of our freedoms and liberties, or, just being able to visit a family member without fear of incurring a fine.

It's why when the gov published the plan for easing restrictions between now and June I thought it was way too slow. People are now just wondering what we're waiting for. I am too.

It just means that people will break the rules more and more openly. As long as they can't be arrested for it, they'll do it.

[StefanAVFC]

Mad really. We had zero, or very limited international restrictions when the pandemic was in full flow, without a vaccine. Now we should be on the final straight, they're floating international restrictions and people are like 'yeah seems reasonable'.

[Davkaus]

12 minutes ago, Genie said:

But “taking it on the chin” because we’re fed up isn’t a viable option because we *potentially* can’t treat all the people that will get sick.

We even struggle to store all the dead bodies.

 

 

Remember when flattening the curve was the objective, rather than sacrificing a year of ours lives seemingly with the goal of complete eradication of the virus?

Cases have plummeted. Deaths have plummeted. We've vaccinated huge amounts of people. And instead of gradually opening up, and continuing the approach of more local restrictions where it's required, we're all just expected to continue to stay home because any small risk is now apparently too big of a risk. 

The cure became worse than the disease long ago, IMO.

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

The cure became worse than the disease long ago, IMO.

Damn straight.

[darrenm]

I've gone full circle with the death stats now. At the beginning of the pandemic you had these people who were trying to downplay the seriousness by suggesting that 'just because they died with COVID, doesn't mean they died of COVID'. At the time it was ridiculous because how many people would be testing positive then dying but COVID not being the cause? Not many at all. But with 20 or 30 people dying a day now within 28 days of a positive test, I'm the one making that argument because we're at the level where it's applicable.

[Genie]

6 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Remember when flattening the curve was the objective, rather than sacrificing a year of ours lives seemingly with the goal of complete eradication of the virus?

Cases have plummeted. Deaths have plummeted. We've vaccinated huge amounts of people. And instead of gradually opening up, and continuing the approach of more local restrictions where it's required, we're all just expected to continue to stay home because any small risk is now apparently too big of a risk. 

The cure became worse than the disease long ago, IMO.

They plummeted from what they were yes, 1800 deaths a day.

Its the high level of infections that’s the problem. They need to be way down towards zero because otherwise we risk another upward spike.

 

[Genie]

14 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

As an expat, international restrictions stop me from seeing my family, based on the logic of mutations and vaccines not being enough, it would seem that some experts would rather me never see them ever again.

My nan died a couple of weeks ago, I'm not able to get back unless I really shell out. That's incredible considering this thing likely won't do a thing to me. 

I have my wedding planned for September; if they have these loose (but expensive) measures now, then fully restrict international travel past the summer, even with vaccines and vaccinated people, I will fly back, pay whatever needs to be paid, and riot myself. (not fully serious)

If the restrictions are removed then you’ll possibly be able to get back to the UK to attend more funerals. Is that a better scenario?

90% of vaccinated people were still catching the SA strain in the only study I am aware of.

[StefanAVFC]

5 minutes ago, Genie said:

They need to be way down towards zero because otherwise we risk another upward spike.

 

It's never going to happen, people get infected with things.

Just now, Genie said:

If the restrictions are removed then you’ll possibly be able to get back to the UK to attend more funerals. Is that a better scenario?

I don't think that's a accurate representation of the current situation.

[Mic09]

7 minutes ago, Genie said:

 

Its the high level of infections that’s the problem. 

 

That is not necessarily true; if most vulnerable people have been vaccinated, why does it matter if 5 thousand 5-15 year olds get COVID with no symptoms and none of them die? Their parents and grandparents will be very low risk of getting infected as they have been vaccinated and I can take a safe bet, no one is going around kissing their grandma in the next few months. 

Of course, it's not a good outcome, but I would argue a better one than thousands of people losing their livelihoods, businesses, marriages.