Generic Virus Thread

[ml1dch]

Cool, that'll calm things down then.

 

 

[TrentVilla]

Well that solves the supply issue. 

[snowychap]

2 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

Orders is different.

To be clear - and I wasn't being, I'll admit - I'm talking about orders in place and announced so I was including this morning's announcement about a yet to be even completed (I think) but certainly unapproved vaccine from Scotland (?) for which the UK government have apparently placed a 60m order. If we combine all of the announced orders then there's at least the possibility that it might significantly outweigh the UK's required (even if factoring in future further repeat inoculation requirements).

I'm not really talking about the EU when I'm expressing my worry as they're big enough and ugly enough to throw some weight around and address these issues, even if not as quickly as they and their citizens would like or need. The issue is those countries and groups of countries that can't compete.

2 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

People look after their own first especially when their careers depend on those people voting for them.

I know and I'm not naive about that but at the same time I think it's important to express dismay at the sentiment that supports these actions if and when it arises.

[Genie]

23 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Cool, that'll calm things down then.

 

 

This reminds me of being denied entry to a club and then shouting “your clubs shit and I didn’t want to come in anyway!”

[NurembergVillan]

3 hours ago, sidcow said:

Our boys in the SAS will covertly go in and liberate British vaccines. 

Special Apothecary Service?

[snowychap]

Just now, Genie said:

This reminds me of being denied entry to a club and then shouting “your clubs shit and I didn’t want to come in anyway!”

It does but there have also been legitimate questions being asked about the over 65s regarding the Oxford/AS data since the trials results were announced. This has obviously been muddied by the German media '8% effective' cobblers but I'm not so sure it should be seen simply as a response to the supply issues or a bargaining position though it's probably inevitable that it will be.

[TrentVilla]

13 minutes ago, snowychap said:

To be clear - and I wasn't being, I'll admit - I'm talking about orders in place and announced so I was including this morning's announcement about a yet to be even completed (I think) but certainly unapproved vaccine from Scotland (?) for which the UK government have apparently placed a 60m order. If we combine all of the announced orders then there's at least the possibility that it might significantly outweigh the UK's required (even if factoring in future further repeat inoculation requirements).

I'm not really talking about the EU when I'm expressing my worry as they're big enough and ugly enough to throw some weight around and address these issues, even if not as quickly as they and their citizens would like or need. The issue is those countries and groups of countries that can't compete.

I know and I'm not naive about that but at the same time I think it's important to express dismay at the sentiment that supports these actions if and when it arises.

Ah yes, in terms of orders absolutley. We will have excess so I would hope they keep back a level that is sensible and the remaining excess can be donated to countries most in need. That is in everyone’s interests.

[Davkaus]

It is interesting, I'd be curious as you say, to know what drove their motivations. Is it genuine concern about it in over 65s, backed up by their scientists, or is it a political move knowing they don't have a leg to stand on, but not wanting to lose face.

[TrentVilla]

4 minutes ago, snowychap said:

It does but there have also been legitimate questions being asked about the over 65s regarding the Oxford/AS data since the trials results were announced. This has obviously been muddied by the German media '8% effective' cobblers but I'm not so sure it should be seen simply as a response to the supply issues or a bargaining position though it's probably inevitable that it will be.

There are questions that have been asked, what is less certain is how legitimate they are. My reading of it is that there is a gap in evidential backing for +65’s but nothing to suggest any issue quite the opposite.

It therefore to me seems overly cautious, it is hard not to conclude that such a decision is advantageous in timing of nothing else given the supply issues. It will certainly help take heat of those responisble.

[TrentVilla]

3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

It is interesting, I'd be curious as you say, to know what drove their motivations. Is it genuine concern about it in over 65s, backed up by their scientists, or is it a political move knowing they don't have a leg to stand on, but not wanting to lose face.

I don’t think it is either, it is just a statistical gap in the results. How it is being used is another story.

[sidcow]

39 minutes ago, ml1dch said:

Cool, that'll calm things down then.

 

 

Cool, so they don't need so many vaccines from AZ. 

 

[sidcow]

The German AZ decision could cause them some real problems. Due to the much easier storage and transportation the AZ vaccine is what's been enabling us to get into care homes.  It's much more difficult to get Pfizer and Moderna into them because of storage and transit restrictions so it's going to be much more problematic for them to vaccinate the most at risk people.  They could lose a lot of old people in homes. 

Of course if it doesn't actually work as they are saying we will be even more screwed.  But I'm pretty sure the peer review specifically said AZ worked well in older people.

 

[ml1dch]

24 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

It is interesting, I'd be curious as you say, to know what drove their motivations. Is it genuine concern about it in over 65s, backed up by their scientists, or is it a political move knowing they don't have a leg to stand on, but not wanting to lose face.

How's your German?

 

 

[darrenm]

Of course, everyone knows that human beings undergo a complete change of physiology when they turn 65 years old which means they are completely different to, say, a 60 year old.

[sidcow]

To put to bed the earlier discussion about if EU members could do their own deals.  It appears to be yes but only with manufacturers the EU are not using 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-55838180

But member states can make separate deals with vaccine makers that are not negotiating with the EU. Hungary has agreed to buy two million doses of the Russian Sputnik-V vaccine, for example.

[Dodgyknees]

This is going to be hard for the “BREXIT” lot. Slag off Germany or slag off the vaccine. Minds could explode.

[TrentVilla]

At times like these I think it is worth remembering that poor decision making isn’t unique to our Government, though they have a staggering level of consistency, there are plenty of others out the messing up. Even “ze German’s” now and then, personally I think this is an example.

[Genie]

Boris mentioned yesterday something that I’d written in here a couple of times, in about 2 weeks times they should see the impact of the vaccinations in the daily charts. Hopefully they present them to show how (fingers crossed) the people who have been vaccinated start to fall out of the infection results.

Im really looking forward to this.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

2 hours ago, darrenm said:

Of course, everyone knows that human beings undergo a complete change of physiology when they turn 65 years old which means they are completely different to, say, a 60 year old.

This is the sort of eye for extreme detail that enables one to create a dirty VW Diesel engine and pass it as clean as a whistle 

[sidcow]

Only 282,812 vaccinated today v 363,508 last Thursday.

What's going on?  A lot more centers opened since last week.  Numbers should be going up not substantially down.

Are these reporting errors from last week or supply issues?