Generic Virus Thread

[Awol]

23 minutes ago, Jareth said:

they don't want to count NHS staff deaths, because they don't want to talk about NHS staff deaths (because they should be the first priority and they are seriously under protected with PPE). 

19 NHS staff have died as of yesterday. I didn’t know that number until it was announced by Matt Hancock, at a press conference.

Is that what ‘hiding in plain sight’ means? 

[Jareth]

5 minutes ago, Awol said:

19 NHS staff have died as of yesterday. I didn’t know that number until it was announced by Matt Hancock, at a press conference.

Is that what ‘hiding in plain sight’ means? 

He passed the question on to the chief nurse, who then passed herself. Also define NHS staff, nurses, doctors, porters, cleaners. How many of each? 

[blandy]

9 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Why the merry **** would he need new companies to re tool to make PPE if there’s already enough?

Because it’s nearly all single use.  Gloves, face masks etc.

[chrisp65]

Just now, blandy said:

Because it’s nearly all single use.  Gloves, face masks etc.

Yes, but he’s assured us we have enough.

Either we have enough, or we need new companies to produce more.

 

[markavfc40]

6 minutes ago, blandy said:

Because it’s nearly all single use.  Gloves, face masks etc.

 

It does beg the question though why wasn't he telling companies to re tool 8/7/6/5 weeks ago when it increasingly became clear what we were heading towards. 

 

It is just another example, of an increasingly long list, of this Government wasting the advantage we had of being able to see what was happening elsewhere leaving us ill prepared to protect those we are asking to care for us and now heading, alongside the US, to suffering the most amount of deaths from this.

Edited April 11, 2020 by markavfc40

[brommy]

3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Yes, but he’s assured us we have enough.

Either we have enough, or we need new companies to produce more.

 

It’s possible to have enough now but need manufacturing to increase to support the forthcoming increasing demand.

[blandy]

Just now, chrisp65 said:

Yes, but he’s assured us we have enough.

Either we have enough, or we need new companies to produce more.

It gets used up. It will get used up in greater quantities in the weeks ahead. All nations need vast quantities of it. Production needs to be ramped up. The co. I work for has designed and is making, they say, something like 150,000 face protectors with re-useable head bands.

I'm not letting Hancock off the hook, btw. I was answering your question and am answering, with what to me is obvious logic, that having enough of a single use item today, isn’t the same as not needing more for tomorrow.

it is and was a disgrace that there is/was insufficient PPE.

[DCJonah]

20 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

The media have in the main been a joke summed by the way over the last few days the main focus has been on Johnson going into ICU/coming out of ICU rather than the approaching 1000 (and more in reality) daily deaths, the fact that drs and nurses are amongst those dying and the lack of PPE.

A few weeks ago when Italy was at its so called peak and was getting less deaths than we are now the reporting on that was rightly alarmist and reflected the gravity of the situation. Now we have reached that level, and beyond, it seems reporting on some buffoon who 5 weeks ago was giving it the bigun that he was shaking the hands of people with coronvirus is now up trotting around a hospital is more important than reflecting the tragedy that another 1k people lost their lives and tens of thousands more will soon follow.

Is this lack of reporting the gravity of the situation and what seem obvious failings due to much of our press not wanting to give the impression that our government have made a mess of this given the advantage of being bale to see what was happening in other countries and acted too late on that info and that we went into it so ill prepared due in part to the 10 years of Tory austerity and decimation of public services. Policies that many of the rags encouraged their readers to support and vote for.

I was also just about to say I think Labour need to step up to the plate more and be more damning of some of the crap the government are getting away with saying and then I just saw this tweet by Starmer which is hopefully a sign of things to come.

 

This just shows how powerful the media are. What they choose to report makes a massive difference. I'm the same. I was watching those reports in absolute fear. Seeing military trucks lined up in Italy to remove bodies was shocking. 

And now we're worse and nothing. No questions asked, no accountability, just a **** number every day. Its madness. 

Sometimes I wonder if its better to just be one of these people who are oblivious to it all. Just be an uninformed pleb and go through life happy because I'm a celeb announced some exciting contestants. 

[chrisp65]

These are 21 NHS doctors and nurses that had died in hospital up to and including 9th April

Obviously I would expect the Government Minister to have access to such difficult to find information.

Abdul Chowduhry

Edmond Adedeji

Fayez Ayache

Alice Kit Tak Ong

Janice Graham

Jitendra Rathod

Rebecca Mack

Anton Sebastianpillai

John Alagos

Glen Corbin

Liz Glanister

Areema Nasreen

Mohamed Sami Shousha

Lynsay Coventry

Aimee O’Rourke

Alfa Sa'adu

Thomas Harvey

Amged El-Hawrani

Pooja Sharma

Habib Zaidi

Adil El Tayar

 

 

 

[markavfc40]

@chrisp65 thank you for listing them mate. These are real people not just numbers. Real people with families, who will now be grieving, that we ask to care for us when we get poorly and that potentially from doing so have lost their lives possibly in some cases due to a lack of being provided with adequate PPE.

It is genuinely upsetting. Whatever god they believed in may he bless them all.

[chrisp65]

28 minutes ago, brommy said:

It’s possible to have enough now but need manufacturing to increase to support the forthcoming increasing demand.

 

27 minutes ago, blandy said:

It gets used up. It will get used up in greater quantities in the weeks ahead. All nations need vast quantities of it. Production needs to be ramped up. The co. I work for has designed and is making, they say, something like 150,000 face protectors with re-useable head bands.

I'm not letting Hancock off the hook, btw. I was answering your question and am answering, with what to me is obvious logic, that having enough of a single use item today, isn’t the same as not needing more for tomorrow.

it is and was a disgrace that there is/was insufficient PPE.

 

Guys, yes, I appreciate both statements ‘could’ both be true at the same time.

I’m fairly sure everybody knows they are not? I’d really sincerely hope nobody believes the Health Minister over actual doctors and nurses that have to wear bin bags? Nobody believes the lie that there is plenty of ppe but the NHS and care homes are being wasteful and using it wrong?

I know a head master that has had to return to school to donate all the science goggles. I know a part time GP that I personally have given a box of 100 pairs of out of date gloves because out of date by a month was better than nothing.

I know for an absolute fact there are community nurses and midwives being sent out with no ppe.

These people are not liars and they are not incompetent. They are scared.

 

[brommy]

2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

 

Guys, yes, I appreciate both statements ‘could’ both be true at the same time.

I’m fairly sure everybody knows they are not? I’d really sincerely hope nobody believes the Health Minister over actual doctors and nurses that have to wear bin bags? Nobody believes the lie that there is plenty of ppe but the NHS and care homes are being wasteful and using it wrong?

I know a head master that has had to return to school to donate all the science goggles. I know a part time GP that I personally have given a box of 100 pairs of out of date gloves because out of date by a month was better than nothing.

I know for an absolute fact there are community nurses and midwives being sent out with no ppe.

These people are not liars and they are not incompetent. They are scared.

 

Does anyone think any politician of any party would publicly announce “My Government has messed this up”?

I expect Hancock will know there are some shortages, but probably not know how serious they are because he’ll have been given information by senior managers wanting to protect their own jobs who have been fed the information by middle managers wanting to protect their jobs.

In a ‘get rid’ culture nobody will admit failure.

[Jareth]

I think it's difficult to get the message across about PPE because (and I include myself) many people are comfortably cocooned from the world at the moment - were they to be sent to the front line to work in a ward or a care home in any of those positions that require people there - well then they would really care about PPE. 

[bannedfromHandV]

It was a matter of time before the government began to show its true colours.

 

To stand there and patronise the NHS for not ‘using the PPE correctly’ is a new low in these times. Matt Hancock, proving he is actually as gormless as he looks.

 

Whilst it’s kinda not super important right now I do take some solace in knowing that the government will not be able to hide from their inadequacies for too long.

[Davkaus]

Well, blaming footballers didn't work, so it can't hurt to have a go at frontline healthcare professionals for using too many bin bags. Might work out. And some people will maintain that he and Johnson are doing a good job. 

In an ideal world, having such a clear lack of PPE with the kind of warning they had would be grounds for a prosecution for gross negligent manslaughter.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Davkaus

[bickster]

29 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I know for an absolute fact there are community nurses and midwives being sent out with no ppe.

I can absolutely  concur with this, the missus' team share an open plan office with the District Nursing Team, they have next to Eff all PPE and they are the one's going out into the community to treat people at home with COVID-19. They are so short of PPE, they aren't allowed to wear it if the patient has no symptoms or even says they don't have it.

7 of the District Nursing Team (at the start of last week) now have COVID-19, there are about 10 in the team.

My missus had to tell her boss who was trying to insist she didn't work from home (but you're a key worker, it's allowed), that there was no friggin way she was going into that office (but thats an entirely different matter - but equally as effing maddening)

[bannedfromHandV]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

I can absolutely  concur with this, the missus' team share an open plan office with the District Nursing Team, they have next to Eff all PPE and they are the one's going out into the community to treat people at home with COVID-19. They are so short of PPE, they aren't allowed to wear it if the patient has no smptoms or even says they don't have it.

7 of the District Nursing Team (at the start of last week) now have COVID-19, there are about 10 in the team.

My missus had to tell her boss who was trying to insist she didn't work from home (but you're a key worker, it's allowed), that there was no friggin way she was going into that office (but thats an entirely different matter - but equally as effing maddening)

I wonder what those people think of Hancock’s accusation that they’re using it wrong.

[blandy]

25 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Guys, yes, I appreciate both statements ‘could’ both be true at the same time.

I’m fairly sure everybody knows they are not? I’d really sincerely hope nobody believes the Health Minister over actual doctors and nurses that have to wear bin bags? Nobody believes the lie that there is plenty of ppe but the NHS and care homes are being wasteful and using it wrong?

I know a head master that has had to return to school to donate all the science goggles. I know a part time GP that I personally have given a box of 100 pairs of out of date gloves because out of date by a month was better than nothing.

I know for an absolute fact there are community nurses and midwives being sent out with no ppe.

These people are not liars and they are not incompetent. They are scared.

Yes. I absolutely haven't argued that "there is enough" PPE. There clearly are shortages and have been from the start. That much is crystal clear.

The point I was making is that the need for more PPE in the future is not linked to having whatever quantity today. So for me the criticism of Hancock for lying should not be about him expressing that we will need more and he wants more people to make it - that part is completely true. The lie is about having enough today and the suggestion that nurses etc. are "wasting" it. I have consistently said it's awful that there was not enough to start with, and it's been compounded by ineffectiveness in getting more to where it's needed, despite no doubt great efforts by logos and other distributors and manufacturers. I don't blame Hancock personally for the problems - he's only been in the job 10 minutes and is no doubt doing what he can, but the lies...well that's on him.

[bickster]

8 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I wonder what those people think of Hancock’s accusation that they’re using it wrong.

It usually starts with many swear words

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

This just shows how powerful the media are. What they choose to report makes a massive difference.

I wonder what the media reaction would be if we now had a Corbyn led Labour government that was seeing almost 1k deaths a day, with tens of thousands more to come, whose leader had found himself in hospital weeks after bigging himself up for shaking the hands of people with coronavirus.

I have a sneaky suspicion Corbyn would not be being lauded as some kind of hero and the headlines would be very different. The media in this country is a joke the way they have reported this whole crisis from failing to acknowledge we went into this ill prepared, due in part to 10 years of Tory austerity, to lauding as a hero a man who is leading an inadequate response whilst promoting irresponsible, in fact life threatening, behaviour.