The Hung Like a Donkey General Election December 2019 Thread

[LakotaDakota]

2 minutes ago, Risso said:

Huw looks like Max Headroom (ask your dad).

I am entering my 6th decade in a couple of weeks, I know who max headroom is

Anyway I like it, might go get my mop chopped the same tomorrow

Edited December 13, 2019 by LakotaDakota

[PompeyVillan]

3 minutes ago, Awol said:

Centre left on economics + centre right on social/culture = majority in UK. 

I would argue centre on social/culture, more centre than right. 

[supermon]

5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Appealing to the people is much less important than appealing to those that inform them.

The Labour party as a party of Labour - as an actual Labour party is dead. It's not just Corbyn that's finished - it's the idea of a traditional Labour party with traditional Labour values - the future will be much like the US - two parties that represent corporate interest and have very minor differences that give them the illusion of any sort of real choice.

 

 

This is also how I see politics in the UK, precedent set,I think we are in a new era of politics

[LondonLax]

Just now, OutByEaster? said:

Appealing to the people is much less important than appealing to those that inform them.

The Labour party as a party of Labour - as an actual Labour party is dead. It's not just Corbyn that's finished - it's the idea of a traditional Labour party with traditional Labour values - the future will be much like the US - two parties that represent corporate interest and have very minor differences that give them the illusion of any sort of real choice.

 

 

I don’t necessarily disagree with that but I also see that as potential progress. In the global economy of 2019 developed western economies no longer have a significant working class manufacturing base that would vote ‘Old Labour’.

To capture the voters of a western country in a globalised economy you need to fight over the middle class vote. New Labour had it right, socially progressive and economically conservative.

 

[Awol]

1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

We've just voted in a hard right economic party on a massive majority - Corbyn was nearer to centre left economically than Johnson - why would you think we'd get a majority for a centre left economic government?

 

I follow a lot of political scientists, they've said it consistently for two years based on the data they've gathered. Most people are okay with state intervention in some areas, a strengthened social safety net and better redistribution. Corbyn isn't that, he's as far left economically and socially as anything else we've ever had in this country. Johnson isn't the hard right bogey man the left have tried to paint him as. We need to thin out the election propaganda and get some perspective on where the parties really stand, imo. 

[LakotaDakota]

Lots of labour votes going to Brexit, would have been some interesting results if they had not stood in any of these seats,  conservatives only picked up an extra couple of percent but even half of the Brexit votes would/could have seen them over the line

[Awol]

4 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

I would argue centre on social/culture, more centre than right. 

That's Blairism, which to be fair proved fairly successful but was repudiated as the devil's work by Corbynistas. 

[tonyh29]

Pidcock could be gone .. 52% of a Tory gain 

tipped as a potential successor to Corbyn 

[OutByEaster?]

1 minute ago, Awol said:

Johnson isn't the hard right bogey man the left have tried to paint him as.

I hope you're right, even though I'm pretty sure you're not. We're about to find out.

By definition, surely Boris is against state intervention (unless its the socialisation of the losses of banks) and he's against a strengthened social safety net and hugely against better redistribution - those are some of the key ideals of the Conservative party - a reduced state with more power to the markets.

Since Thatcher, the centre has been dragged so far to the right that we struggle to even recognise it anymore.

 

 

 

 

[OutByEaster?]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

tipped as a potential successor to Corbyn 

It doesn't matter who succeeds Corbyn - they won't have a voice for the next five years - Labour is over.

 

[snowychap]

13 minutes ago, Risso said:

Huw looks like Max Headroom (ask your dad).

A dead baddie (Logan) in Fear the Walking Dead.

[Awol]

Ian Lavery's seat being recounted. If he gets the chop at least he managed to get £160K out of the miners pension fund to pay off his mortgage. 

[snowychap]

18 minutes ago, Awol said:

Centre left on economics + centre right on social/culture = majority in UK. 

Not now.

[snowychap]

12 minutes ago, Awol said:

I follow a lot of political scientists

Would you like to tell us who so we could measure just whereabouts they may sit on any sort of political spectrum?

[snowychap]

16 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I hope you're right, even though I'm pretty sure you're not. We're about to find out.

By definition, surely Boris is against state intervention (unless its the socialisation of the losses of banks) and he's against a strengthened social safety net and hugely against better redistribution - those are some of the key ideals of the Conservative party - a reduced state with more power to the markets.

Since Thatcher, the centre has been dragged so far to the right that we struggle to even recognise it anymore.

All of this is really missing the argument and the battlefield.

It's little more than a chinwag about yesterday's news.

You don't get to sort out or define tomorrow by talking about 2008 or the 80s.

Edited December 13, 2019 by snowychap

[OutByEaster?]

2 minutes ago, snowychap said:

All of this is really missing the argument and the battlefield.

It's little more than a chinwag about yeterday's news.

You don't get to sort out or define tomorrow by talking about 2008 or the 80s.

You're quite right, but I also think it's slightly far fetched that Boris will suddenly become in favour of three things he's ideologically opposed to.

The centre I remember is absolutely gone - tonight is a bonfire of its memory.

 

[snowychap]

1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

You're quite right, but I also think it's slightly far fetched that Boris will suddenly become in favour of three things he's ideologically opposed to.

The centre I remember is absolutely gone - tonight is a bonfire of its memory.

Johnson is against today what he may have been for yesterday.

Whilst one can't and shouldn't take that as a stand against everything he has said - on some things he is relatively consitent - I'm not sure you should apply it to everything. The state intervention thing for a start: it may not be state aid as you or I may think of it but there's a lot of 'state aid' that can help either the politicial incumbent or the vested interest.  Anyone for a bridge...

[Awol]

2 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Would you like to tell us who so we could measure just whereabouts they may sit on any sort of political spectrum?

John Tasioulas, Matt Goodwin, Tim Haughton, Eric Kaufmann, Philip Blond , Bruno Macaes, David Blagden, Tim Bale, Anand Menon, loads. I'll have a dig through my twitter follows tomorrow if you like. 

 

[markavfc40]

7 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

 

The centre I remember is absolutely gone - tonight is a bonfire of its memory.

 

There wasn't even a credible option for the centre.

There was an as far to the right Tory party and as far to the left Labour party in my voting lifetime, so early 90's. Would a more centre ground Labour party akin to the Blair/Brown days have defeated this Tory party? Whether some would consider that now Labour is another question and therefore whether Labour could shift back in that direction is another. I certainly don't see them getting that far away from where they are no in one change of leader.

[snowychap]

11 minutes ago, Awol said:

John Tasioulas, Matt Goodwin, Tim Haughton, Eric Kaufmann, Philip Blond , Bruno Macaes, David Blagden, Tim Bale, Anand Menon, loads. I'll have a dig through my twitter follows tomorrow if you like. 

 

No need, Jon - that's a fair enough cross section though there is certainly one or two that I'd strike a line through (Kaufmann definitely and Goodwin probably, too).

Apologies if that came across as more confrontational than intended. It was genuinely meant to get a picture of who these people were.

Edited December 13, 2019 by snowychap