roonst83 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) Usually I totally get the argument that the Prem is a huge step up in quality from the Championship etc, but I'm much less concerned about this when talking about Archer as it's clear he's a purely natural goalscorer. Something we're crying out for. Just look at his goals, he's not some Defoe-esq striker who simply smashes the ball in as hard as he can, he can score with both feet, either through power or precision. If he's given service then he's got every chance and likelihood of putting those chances away in the top league. The difficulty he (and we) have is working him into a system that Emery favours. The said, if he continues to show how good he is at 'Born this season then Emery will surely take note. Edited February 17, 2023 by roonst83 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 hours ago, villa4europe said: The juxtaposition of a mid table manager, we as fans say we'd be more understanding of the results weren't great but he was bringing youngsters through whilst at the same time they do have to win games If like Gerrard you're doing neither then you're **** Yeah...i agree. but Gerrrard was a young manager too...do we only cut the players some slack? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Ultimately, I think Archer will be included in the side at the beginning of next season. We need a better squad for cups if we intend to go deep and he would have a good shot at the CF role that Ollie currently plays. It helps that Carrick plays a similar build up structure to Unai (3box3 or 325) so he would be familiar with the demands of the position already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 58 minutes ago, PaulC said: He was given game time under Smith and I think if he'd have stayed manager he would have played a lot more. Gerrard rated him but had Ings and Watkins and the team were struggling so didnt want to risk him. Emery obviously not as he let him go out on loan but he could change his mind after the loan. There is a massive step up from championship to Premier League but Archer is young and would adapt. I just wish he was given the opportunity. Its a lot more statisfing seeing a local lad come through than splashing out £50 million on a striker. To me he looks the best finisher to come through the academy since Gary Shaw but Shaw got the opportunity and played a significant part in our title winning success at only 20. these days players dont get the same chance so who knows. I agree Paul.. Managers jobs are so easily lost, these days......Gary was given time to grow in a team that was a well oiled machine, and grow he did....He had a seasoned campaigner in Peter Withe to play off and learn from.....and a pacy winger to link with. Villa in those days was in exponential growth and progress, confidence and spirit was high....it was a well balanced side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 47 minutes ago, roonst83 said: Usually I totally get the argument that the Prem is a huge step up in quality from the Championship etc, but I'm much less concerned about this when talking about Archer as it's clear he's a purely natural goalscorer. Something we're crying out for. Just look at his goals, he's not some Defoe-esq striker who simply smashes the ball in as hard as he can, he can score with both feet, either through power or precision. If he's given service then he's got every chance and likelihood of putting those chances away in the top league. The difficulty he (and we) have is working him into a system that Emery favours. The said, if he continues to show how good he is at 'Born this season then Emery will surely take note. If he turns out as good as Defoe.....I'll be in clover. Defoe's scoring rate was 2.5....that'll do for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 hours ago, roonst83 said: Usually I totally get the argument that the Prem is a huge step up in quality from the Championship etc, but I'm much less concerned about this when talking about Archer as it's clear he's a purely natural goalscorer. Something we're crying out for. Just look at his goals, he's not some Defoe-esq striker who simply smashes the ball in as hard as he can, he can score with both feet, either through power or precision. If he's given service then he's got every chance and likelihood of putting those chances away in the top league. The difficulty he (and we) have is working him into a system that Emery favours. The said, if he continues to show how good he is at 'Born this season then Emery will surely take note. Seems like a weirdly harsh take on Defoe who had a great scoring record and incredible longevity in the top flight, and also seems weird because I've seen Archer specifically compared to Defoe a couple of times. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 hours ago, roonst83 said: Usually I totally get the argument that the Prem is a huge step up in quality from the Championship etc, but I'm much less concerned about this when talking about Archer as it's clear he's a purely natural goalscorer. Something we're crying out for. Just look at his goals, he's not some Defoe-esq striker who simply smashes the ball in as hard as he can, he can score with both feet, either through power or precision. If he's given service then he's got every chance and likelihood of putting those chances away in the top league. The difficulty he (and we) have is working him into a system that Emery favours. The said, if he continues to show how good he is at 'Born this season then Emery will surely take note. I get your point is more about style of finisher but I doubt he will ever be as good as Defoe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Reminds me more of Pukki more than anything else. Uncanny knack for the goal and pretty decent at everything else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Slow week aye lads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonst83 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 41 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I get your point is more about style of finisher but I doubt he will ever be as good as Defoe. Oh yeah, I wasn't suggesting Defoe wasn't a top striker. I just meant Archer has more of a natural goal scorer finish to him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonst83 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 52 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Seems like a weirdly harsh take on Defoe who had a great scoring record and incredible longevity in the top flight, and also seems weird because I've seen Archer specifically compared to Defoe a couple of times. Wasn't meant as a dig to Defoe at all. Just a comparison for finishing styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 4 hours ago, TRO said: Yeah...i agree. but Gerrrard was a young manager too...do we only cut the players some slack? When the manager is a tool who blames everyone but himself, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 I also find it odd criticising Defoe's finishing style, considering finishing was by far his best attribute However, comparing the two, Archer seems to have a bit more of a rounded game IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 5 hours ago, roonst83 said: Oh yeah, I wasn't suggesting Defoe wasn't a top striker. I just meant Archer has more of a natural goal scorer finish to him. I keep seeing that he is a natural goal scorer, but I don’t think this is true. Outside of the last couple of yrs, he never been prolific. He wasn’t talked about much at youth level and wasn’t scoring loads of goals. All credit to him he’s obviously worked very hard to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, mikeyp102 said: I keep seeing that he is a natural goal scorer, but I don’t think this is true. Outside of the last couple of yrs, he never been prolific. He wasn’t talked about much at youth level and wasn’t scoring loads of goals. All credit to him he’s obviously worked very hard to improve. Some people develop later than others, Harry Kane wasnt really talked about in similar circumstances as a potentially natural goalscorer until he was about 22 if anything the natural goalscorers from youth football are the ones that dont seem to make it at the top level. Edited February 18, 2023 by Zatman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 1 hour ago, mikeyp102 said: I keep seeing that he is a natural goal scorer, but I don’t think this is true. Outside of the last couple of yrs, he never been prolific. He wasn’t talked about much at youth level and wasn’t scoring loads of goals. All credit to him he’s obviously worked very hard to improve. Said it before and will probably say it again. He was so small he couldnt make the most of his talents. He couldnt play as a striker because he would just get overpowered. He wasnt prolific but he was still a really good finisher when he did get chances. As soon as he grew into a man things changed. He got powerful and was more able to hold off defenders. As you say he must have worked so hard in thr gym to gain the strength needed Then you get a prolific striker like Louie Barry lauded throughout Europe who has not kicked on yet. This happens all the time . He still has time but i think its becoming less and less likely he will make it. Despite working with a personal trainer he isnt strong enough to make a difference in mens football it seems at the moment. Same happened with Luke Moore and Gabby. Gabby improved out of the blue when he grew into a man while Luke who had been rated since 14 9r 15 never really kicked on at 21 and faded away . I think Gabby was playing sunday league at 14 ,15. Just the way football is. A sure thing at 17 can disappear by 19 and vice versa. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 On 17/02/2023 at 08:52, Zhan_Zhuang said: Case in point: Bailey, I don't think he's ready for the Premier League either. Archer has instinct and the ability to score all kinds of goals. He just needs some experience. Agreed, Said in the R&R Thread, If those 2 chances in injury time (Bailey/Duran) fall to Cameron Archer then we win 4-2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 What’s this doing down here. Following this from the Duran thread. We are not ‘cashing in’ on Archer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 10, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 10, 2023 To stop spamming up the Duran thread. I guess for me, I don't quite share the level of optimism some have for Cameron - he's a good young player and one who should have a decent career, but I think he may already be at his ceiling. I see him, if he reaches his potential, having a similar kind of career as a sort of Dwight Gayle or Andy Weimann type - bouncing between the upper Championship and lower Prem, scoring some goals but not really making the jump to the top level. I think he'll be well liked somewhere, and justifiably so, but I don't think he's going to push through and drive us to where we want to be. Cashing in this summer with his value at its highest would, in my opinion, make a lot of sense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 16 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: What’s this doing down here. Following this from the Duran thread. We are not ‘cashing in’ on Archer. Agreed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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