Wesley Moraes

[nick76]

Just now, lexicon said:

There has also been this desire to be the on to 'call it' on forums such as this one for a long time now. Creates this weird atmosphere where some seem to hope that a player will fail or discount anything good they do because they don't want to be wrong. Even weirder still are the posters that only come out of the woodwork when we're on a downer. 

Also if they are not great straight away then they are rubbish. Players never get time.  I hear and agree that we need somebody scoring now but that’s management fault for lack of alternative or depth not Wes’.  
 

For his first season in this league being young, inexperienced, a step up and doesn’t speak the language he’s doing fine but unfortunately we need more than fine therefore some are saying he’s rubbish and writing him off which is total BS in my mind.  
 

The issue isn’t him...yes he needs to develop and get better but that comes with time but the issue is an alternative and better support.

[lexicon]

Just now, nick76 said:

Also if they are not great straight away then they are rubbish. Players never get time.  I hear and agree that we need somebody scoring now but that’s management fault for lack of alternative or depth not Wes’.  
 

For his first season in this league being young, inexperienced, a step up and doesn’t speak the language he’s doing fine but unfortunately we need more than fine therefore some are saying he’s rubbish and writing him off which is total BS in my mind.  
 

The issue isn’t him...yes he needs to develop and get better but that comes with time but the issue is an alternative and better support.

I find it very weird too, Nick. 

Some seem unwilling to take the rough with the smooth and have somehow forgotten about the last 10 years at the club. 

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

I find it very weird too, Nick. 

Some seem unwilling to take the rough with the smooth and have somehow forgotten about the last 10 years at the club. 

Is an arrogance from some fans who think because of the name we should be better than Brighton, Bournemouth who are more established clubs than us now.

I wonder do Forest fans think they are better than City, PSG etc with their European history 

[Dave-R]

1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

The crosses always seemed to reach Tammy though. How bizarre. 

Big difference in the championship and crossing to a lone striker than there is in the premier, the gap on quality is gaping on that one in afraid. Prem defences will not tolerate the simple ineffective crosses our wingers send in. Yes they are very ineffective considering many don't even go beyond the first defender. So we then send them high, way high to the point no one's attacking far post. We are asking Wesley to get on the end of crosses that very rarely breach the first man. They even go sailing over him to far post, even beyond Ive seen to our other winger who's not far from the corner flag which shows how bad our crossing can be. 

While we at this formation we need much better quality browser's, as much as i lime our wingers, I certainly don't think they are good enough for this style of play. This is why it's more than just Wesley, it's certainly experience, quality and knowledge issue. We can not keep directing crosses into the defence for easy pickings, the opposition picks the ball from us with ease. We are easily intercepted on our crosses, then if we do get any in, the defence has reformed so it's back to full blown defensive formation, we never seem to catch defences out before they form back up, which is another problem.

Our midfield is so slow at advancing that they never catch upto the wingers for the cross into the box, again no one is there, its like they are behind because they are deliberately holding back in case of counter attacking. We need to be sending two midfielders minimum into that box with Wesley when that ball leaves the wingers foot. Not only that but the other winger should be running far post in case. Yes thats right our other winger who is not releasing the ball for the cross, spends to much time on the wing waiting for a possible switch, which means we hardly ever have an attacking winger. That is three extra men that at least should be getting into the box besides Wesley, four men who should be attacking that ball and on a good day we score if the cross is right.

None of it's happening though, there seems to be this attitude of hesitation amongst our players. I've even noticed our players do not want to throw themselves at the ball. Yes on goal scoring opportunities a fair few have shunned the idea of diving headers, hurling towards the net a hundred mile an hour while sliding the ball Into the net. You don't see it all to much these days, that aggresive, desperate behaviour that would see a player score because they wanted it so badly, that to them they would score even if it meant the move was risky. Players these days are more like model's than footballers, spend to much time on the floor complaining or tactically fouling than playing the game for what it used to be.

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, nick76 said:

Also if they are not great straight away then they are rubbish. Players never get time.  I hear and agree that we need somebody scoring now but that’s management fault for lack of alternative or depth not Wes’.  
 

For his first season in this league being young, inexperienced, a step up and doesn’t speak the language he’s doing fine but unfortunately we need more than fine therefore some are saying he’s rubbish and writing him off which is total BS in my mind.  
 

The issue isn’t him...yes he needs to develop and get better but that comes with time but the issue is an alternative and better support.

While writing him off is silly, to say he is doing fine is just wrong. 

If he was doing fine, there would be no discussion of needing a new striker in January. 

He is struggling. Not sure why it seems to be a big deal to admit it.

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, DCJonah said:

While writing him off is silly, to say he is doing fine is just wrong. 

If he was doing fine, there would be no discussion of needing a new striker in January. 

He is struggling. Not sure why it seems to be a big deal to admit it.

Well thats fair enough assessment most people can see that but it seems some posters are going OTT calling him the worst Villa striker ever

[Phil Silvers]

Boxing Day plan...………. stick a carrot on his nose, some twigs in his ears, he'll feel like a new man and Norwich won't recognise him, if he hasn't scored by half time stick a Christmas Pudding up his jacksy and give in 10 more minutes.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by Phil Silvers

[MotoMkali]

6 hours ago, Dave-R said:

Now I don't think that's a fair comment at all considering our Wingers are equally to blame. Our Wingers are absoloute rubbish at whipping in accurate crosses to our solo striker, they just never reach anywhere near Wesley and when they do they arnt at the right side of Wesley so then it makes the lad looks me he's not doing his job.

It really has baffled me at the majority of crosses being put in that there is hardly anyone ever there, either there's a timing problem or they are moving to quick that the team can't catch up. The you have to ask yourself why are our attacking players holding back and not getting into the box for the cross.

There is more to this than just saying it's Wesley's fault, to be honest I'm sick of this whole scapegoat business from fans, it's a collective fault and everyone in the team isn't doing something they should be doing.

Wesley would be much better if he actually had something delivered right. You only have to look at other teams to see how there striker/strikers are being serviced compared to ours. Even Southampton destroyed us and made us look like total amateurs at servicing attackers.

 

Totally agree, as well as this our wingers keep playing high balls when we almost never win them. Low cross in front of the striker is the recipe for goals because even if the defender gets there they can easily deflect the ball into their own net. 

[MotoMkali]

3 hours ago, DCJonah said:

While writing him off is silly, to say he is doing fine is just wrong. 

If he was doing fine, there would be no discussion of needing a new striker in January. 

He is struggling. Not sure why it seems to be a big deal to admit it.

The issue is that most of VT and other villa fans seem to think that our striker should be scoring a goal a game when we average about 45% possession and throw the ball away 10 seconds after we win it. Simply put what isn't good enough for this league is our midfield.

When you struggle defensively but you have 2 England internationals as part of your back line you should be looking at the middle. When your striker has had only 31 shots 7 less than your central midfielder who has only scored 3 goals maybe you shouldn't be blaming him for not scoring.

The fact is we haven't been supporting any of our players enough. There is no movement except for Jack, Wesley and Anwar and Anwar only runs in behind. In the first 45 minutes against soton wesley was our best player except for Jack because he tried to pass it short and got us into good attacking positions, no one supported him so we lost those good positions. Is it right to say he was crap no. Why don't you ask Luiz, Nakamba and Hourihane why they didn't try to keep the ball? 

Edited December 24, 2019 by MotoMkali

[DCJonah]

26 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

The issue is that most of VT and other villa fans seem to think that our striker should be scoring a goal a game when we average about 45% possession and throw the ball away 10 seconds after we win it. Simply put what isn't good enough for this league is our midfield.

When you struggle defensively but you have 2 England internationals as part of your back line you should be looking at the middle. When your striker has had only 31 shots 7 less than your central midfielder who has only scored 3 goals maybe you shouldn't be blaming him for not scoring.

The fact is we haven't been supporting any of our players enough. There is no movement except for Jack, Wesley and Anwar and Anwar only runs in behind. In the first 45 minutes against soton wesley was our best player except for Jack because he tried to pass it short and got us into good attacking positions, no one supported him so we lost those good positions. Is it right to say he was crap no. Why don't you ask Luiz, Nakamba and Hourihane why they didn't try to keep the ball? 

All of those players keep the ball better than Wesley. 

And its posts like this that are ridiculous. Maybe we shouldn't blame him for not scoring? So a £23 million international takes no responsibility for their performances? Yes, we have issues and he is very much one of them. 

The resemblance to the Scott Hogan thread is becoming surreal. It's like we forgot that ever happened. 

[Five Ken McNaughts]

33 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

The issue is that most of VT and other villa fans seem to think that our striker should be scoring a goal a game when we average about 45% possession and throw the ball away 10 seconds after we win it.

A goal a game? I would have been cock-a-hoop with one in the last ten PL matches. When a cross arrived at his feet 8 yards out against Southampton, he not only failed to swivel his body to turn the ball goalwards, he didn't even swivel his foot – just kicked it the way he was facing, straight into the hoardings. I would love for Wes to make me look an absolute fool for ever doubting him (every week I cheer for exactly that!) but we appear to have spent £22m on the Emperor's New Clothes and, try as I might, I just can't see the magnificent finery that some posters swear is right there in front of me.

[avfc1982am]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Well thats fair enough assessment most people can see that but it seems some posters are going OTT calling him the worst Villa striker ever

Unfortunately others will always have alternate views too your own. Whether irrational or rational it's going too happen. I myself think he's struggling and that he wasn't quite ready to lead the line this season. I think looking at him over the period of time he's now had(which is easy in hindsight), it's clear he does need to work on elements of his game and probably should be an option from the bench at this time, giving him time to settle and get used to the pace of the game in England. I also think though, that the club/management and now coaching staff have been more responsible for some of the criticism leveled at him. Not only for not providing the cover during the summer but also not taking him out the firing line on multiple occasions. He should've been rotated far more to take some of the pressure off him directly imo, especially since Kodjia has been fit. Very naive from the club. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

On 13/06/2019 at 15:55, sne said:

FIFA 

Hands up. I haven't been allowed to play FIFA for many years (terrible, terrible loser, and even worse winner). 

But I assume DEF means defensive abilities and PAS passing. And it's fascinating how they could get him so wrong. Worst attributes they say, but it's the only useful thing about him. He is pacy, can shoot and dribble? Say what? 

[MotoMkali]

23 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

All of those players keep the ball better than Wesley. 

And its posts like this that are ridiculous. Maybe we shouldn't blame him for not scoring? So a £23 million international takes no responsibility for their performances? Yes, we have issues and he is very much one of them. 

The resemblance to the Scott Hogan thread is becoming surreal. It's like we forgot that ever happened. 

Do they really keep the ball better than him though? At times against Southampton it looked like our midfielders were ball boys getting the balls that the Southampton players lost and passing it straight back to them. And Wesley is 1000 times better than Hogan. 

Yes wesley isn't scoring but lately no one but grealish is either. Yes wesley could be doing better but in the same vein he has had 21 fewer shots than maupay and scored 3 fewer goals. Whose to say if we were helping him average 3 shots a game he wouldn't be at least on 7 because it would mean he doesn't have to worry about whether he misses his only chance of the game which is often a ball that has been played behind him. 

[MotoMkali]

26 minutes ago, Five Ken McNaughts said:

A goal a game? I would have been cock-a-hoop with one in the last ten PL matches. When a cross arrived at his feet 8 yards out against Southampton, he not only failed to swivel his body to turn the ball goalwards, he didn't even swivel his foot – just kicked it the way he was facing, straight into the hoardings. I would love for Wes to make me look an absolute fool for ever doubting him (every week I cheer for exactly that!) but we appear to have spent £22m on the Emperor's New Clothes and, try as I might, I just can't see the magnificent finery that some posters swear is right there in front of me.

That ball was behind him. That is not an easy finish with you being 1/3 of the way across goal and a defender between you and it. It would have been a cracking finish if he scored but I'm not expecting him to be aguero.

And if you want a player to score 1 in the last 10 games you better make sure they have had more than 9 shots in that period. That same period where mcginn has taken the same number of shots and scored 0 goals. The team bought wesley because of his link up play which is excellent and his potential which is clearly massive considering how much he has improved each game. Now it would be nice if he had scored more goals. The case can be made he should be on 7 with the shots he has taken but that Southampton one is certainly not one of them.

He hasn't set the world on fire but in no game I have watched have I come away thinking he has been our worst player. 

[sir_gary_cahill]

6 hours ago, Zatman said:

Is an arrogance from some fans who think because of the name we should be better than Brighton, Bournemouth who are more established clubs than us now.

I wonder do Forest fans think they are better than City, PSG etc with their European history 

Agree with this entirely

[Dave-R]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

All of those players keep the ball better than Wesley. 

And its posts like this that are ridiculous. Maybe we shouldn't blame him for not scoring? So a £23 million international takes no responsibility for their performances? Yes, we have issues and he is very much one of them. 

The resemblance to the Scott Hogan thread is becoming surreal. It's like we forgot that ever happened. 

I'd say until the team starts running properly and the cogs are turning the right way, meaning midfield and Wingers keeping the ball, crossing it correctly as well as winning it back, you can't aim blame at a striker till things are running correctly throughout the team. Wesley is having to come out of position and come deep to try and help because the midfield is under severe pressure. So when Wesley should be up there for the cross, which is by chance a cross can get past the first defender (because that's an issue alone), hes not there and it's no surprise he's not there with the way the midfield and Wingers are acting up.

Even Jack has had some questionable games of late, Mcginn is now injured but before he was absoloute shattered. Nakamba had a very high pass rate early in the season and was like a pitbull, now hes making mistakes. Luiz started off brightly, even scored some blinders and now he's drifted apart. Ghazi can't track his man, has missed four or five that should of been converted to goals, if we were more clinical. Hourihane is our only set piece taker who cans score, gets regularly left out and has started to miss with his magic foot. Jota while he can do a trick or few and has a pass to him can't seem to catch up to the ball and win duels that require pace. Jack is having the ball taken off of him even more lately, hes either trying to do to much or he is finding it difficult to move up a gear as with the rest of them. Trezeguet is fast, but has no skill but has shown over some games that he can score but his speeds not being utilised correctly.

Our wingers can't cross, yet they cross high most of the time and we've yet to score from high crosses so why cross high, we should be crossing low. Midfield needs to learn to attack with Wesley and the other Winger needs to run in for crosses, our team is making this loom extremely hard and we've resulted yet again in blaming just one player for it, it's sad.

More body's in the box for a cross increases your chances of someone scoring and were throwing just one forward, it's a mess that's what this all is.

[Dave-R]

7 hours ago, Zatman said:

Is an arrogance from some fans who think because of the name we should be better than Brighton, Bournemouth who are more established clubs than us now.

I wonder do Forest fans think they are better than City, PSG etc with their European history 

We have to earn the right to think that, our players have to go out there and make team fear them again.

At the moment we're pretty much the laughing stock of the league I'd say, they see us as the team that can't beat 10 men, can't put games away, the club that has spent all this money and still cant make it click.

Yeah every season there is a team like us who goes up, the question is do our players have the magic to turn this around and be hero's to there fans and club.

Do our players want to be remembered as the 100+mill team who fell to bits and was laughed out of the premier league or the 100+mill team who fought with heart, took the fight to the enemy, went out and brought some beautiful, wonderful, stunning performances and brought the wins and points home to secure survival. 

Part of me thinks they are trying to do to much, instead of keeping things simple on the pitch, they feel the pressure and expectations of what's laid in front of them, they need to relax more.

[nick76]

7 hours ago, DCJonah said:

While writing him off is silly, to say he is doing fine is just wrong. 

If he was doing fine, there would be no discussion of needing a new striker in January. 

He is struggling. Not sure why it seems to be a big deal to admit it.

Disagree, I was saying we needed another striker back in August before we started the season or had seen Wes in PL games.  Depending totally on Wes was just plain stupid, I mean how many young foreign strikers from lower quality leagues have ever come into the PL and smashed it?  Not many as a percentage I’m guessing.

For me, individually, he is doing fine for all the points I mentioned previously including 5 goals in 19.  Unfortunately we need more than that, I agree, because so much relies on goals and we are a fairly weak team, don’t support the striker well and aren’t playing to a forwards strengths.

To write him off is just silly, he’s far from the worst performer and he’s just being scapegoated.  Our midfield is weak, we concede too many goals from set pieces and we don’t support our striker and thats before I can assess our striker.

Our aim is 17th or above this season, we need more across the team but this constant thread bashing Wes baffles me.

[Laughable Chimp]

21 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Disagree, I was saying we needed another striker back in August before we started the season or had seen Wes in PL games.  Depending totally on Wes was just plain stupid, I mean how many young foreign strikers from lower quality leagues have ever come into the PL and smashed it?  Not many as a percentage I’m guessing.

For me, individually, he is doing fine for all the points I mentioned previously including 5 goals in 19.  Unfortunately we need more than that, I agree, because so much relies on goals and we are a fairly weak team, don’t support the striker well and aren’t playing to a forwards strengths.

To write him off is just silly, he’s far from the worst performer and he’s just being scapegoated.  Our midfield is weak, we concede too many goals from set pieces and we don’t support our striker and thats before I can assess our striker.

Our aim is 17th or above this season, we need more across the team but this constant thread bashing Wes baffles me.

Mate, he has currently the worst minute per goal ratio out of all the strikers in the PL who've scored this season aside from Joelinton and Deeney(and to be fair to Deeney, he hasn't played enough minutes for his average to be relevant). How you think that is still an okay goalscoring record for any striker in the PL, no matter how old they are is beyond me. Any striker who is imo averaging higher than 300 minutes per goal is quite clearly and definitively struggling as a goalscorer no matter the league they are playing in. His goalscoring record is poor, his goals per game ratio is misleading(not that its a good ratio to begin with) due to how many minutes he plays for us.

I think Wes gets a lot of scapegoating as well, as in it seems some people think we'll magically become so much better if we get rid of Wes, but he is still 100% a part of the problem and is arguably one of the biggest problems with our team right now. The thing with all these other guys is that they've all showed flashes of quality now and again. With Wes, he's been absolutely dire for 2 months now. There's only so long you can watch your striker fail to be a striker before you get frustrated.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Laughable Chimp