JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 24 minutes ago, Michelsen said: For all his flaws, MON was a very, very charismatic manager. Guessing we all view charisma differently. In my view charismatic is someone like Sherwood, Klopp etc. Unless I have the definition totally wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted March 1, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 1, 2019 5 hours ago, briny_ear said: I was so full of rage and despair that I couldn’t think or talk about the match for days. Amazing to think that we were fourth in the premier league at the time, 5 points clear of Arsenal! And two weeks earlier we had been 3rd, sitting above Chelsea. We probably all saw that game as really significant at the time but looking back, it was part of a run where we were effectively “found out” as not as good as we thought we were. Starting where a strong squad lost to Everton in the FA Cup, we faced Chelsea, Man C, Spurs, Liverpool and Man U and were beaten by them all. The fact the we had only bought Heskey in the January window for a modest amount was also perhaps a hint that Lerner had run out of the money he needed to match his ambition. It’s all been downhill since then and it’s hard not to feel gloomy after 10 years of consistently downwards spiral. Yeah, Heskey was a massive ****, had we had any kind of scouting network at the time for that money we coudl have got a younger goal scorer who you know, could actually score goals. Hey, maybe with resale value. No, though we sign Big Emile for over the odds to have his last payday and eventually find his calling on the left side of midfield for McCleish. Bang on about that run too, don't lose to all of them and the Stoke result doesn't matter at all. It's nice to have one moment to blame, but it was coming for a while probably (the fall) as the unsustainability of throwing buckets of cash at buying almost exclusively over priced UK based players and playing counter attacking football with an old school manager who didn't like to use many players and never got us to last a whole season at a good level. At it's essence Lerner gambled the club on getting CL football and lost after not getting a good enough off field, or on field structure together to get the best out of the money. Now after 10 years of repeating the same mistakes chasing lesser goals, prem stability, prem survival, promotion with the same results hopefully we've learnt our lesson and are about to do things properly. UTV. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Feels crazy that 10 years has already flown by. Remember that day very well, after throwing the Europa League there was a sense that we had to make good on our promise in the league to justify it. We were on course for a fairly routine win that day - Carew's goal in particular being a highlight - until we royally Villa'd it. I didn't actually see the Whelan goal as only being 15 at the time I had to bow to my dad's seniority when he insisted we had to leave early. Thought it was a job well done until we were walking outside the Doug Ellis and Stoke fans suddenly started going ballistic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 F*** this is depressing. I feel like the CSKA surrender sticks more in my mind though long term. What a time to be a bang average Premier League footballer with MON handing out princely long term contracts like confetti 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 A smuch as I destest Mon now you cannot say he wasn't. Our best manager in the last 10-15years. He gave us quite a high level of success and we were robbed in the cup. Final. You always felt we could have beaten anyone when we had that team. Since then we have never recovered until then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 I never get the hate for MON. He clearly knew what was coming when he left and was proved right with how Lerner behaved from that point. He had us right up there challenging for top 4 season after season. He had flaws but we didn't spend enough to guarantee top 4. Great times for a few years. Been an utter shit show ever since. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Villan_of_oz Posted March 1, 2019 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted March 1, 2019 There is confusion over the two seperate facts, that can both be true. 1. He has been our most successful manager in the last 2 decades. 2. He is an absolute word removed, that did 100% start the downward spiral, he was the guy that signed all those players on stupid wages. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted March 1, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: I never get the hate for MON. He clearly knew what was coming when he left and was proved right with how Lerner behaved from that point. He had us right up there challenging for top 4 season after season. He had flaws but we didn't spend enough to guarantee top 4. Great times for a few years. Been an utter shit show ever since. Yes that's probably all of MON's good points, I would say though that if he truly gave a monkeys about villa he wouldn't have upped sticks and chucked his toys out the pram 4 days before the start of the season. I'd also argue that wages and transfer spend wise we spent enough to be top 4 if we hadn't bought so heavily in the UK market and had invested some of that cash in a DOF and proper off field set up that could have handled a change of manager/head coach without the whoel thing falling to pieces. That's on Lerner, as are the motivations for MON's tantrum, but MON doing what he did when he did it doesn't exactly reflect well on him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratvillan Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 On a rolling contract and leaves 5 days before the season. Will not be acknowledging his return in the opposition dugout with anything other than resentment. I possibly need need to move on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 I guess the alternative was for him to stay on with an underfunded team stripped of the stars who had got us challenging for top 4, see the team slide down the table, and get sacked in time for the winter transfer window. I think most sensible managers would step off the tracks to avoid that particular train. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Guessing we all view charisma differently. In my view charismatic is someone like Sherwood, Klopp etc. Unless I have the definition totally wrong. Charisma is difficult to quantify objectively, and it comes in different forms. It has to do with a certain ability to make people do what you want them to, a certain charm, a magnetic personality. MON back in the day had that in spades. His motivational skills were as good as anyone’s and were essential to any success he had in his managerial career. He wasn’t much of a tactician, didn’t really do coaching and was hit and miss in the transfer market and still had a very sucessful career as a manager. Edited March 2, 2019 by Michelsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 7 hours ago, briny_ear said: I guess the alternative was for him to stay on with an underfunded team stripped of the stars who had got us challenging for top 4, see the team slide down the table, and get sacked in time for the winter transfer window. I think most sensible managers would step off the tracks to avoid that particular train. Exactly. There will also some crazy fans who had started calling for him to be sacked before the end of that season. Clearly promises were broken and honestly the way Lerner **** us from that point, i'm amazed anyone holds a grudge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 11 hours ago, romavillan said: Yes that's probably all of MON's good points, I would say though that if he truly gave a monkeys about villa he wouldn't have upped sticks and chucked his toys out the pram 4 days before the start of the season. I'd also argue that wages and transfer spend wise we spent enough to be top 4 if we hadn't bought so heavily in the UK market and had invested some of that cash in a DOF and proper off field set up that could have handled a change of manager/head coach without the whoel thing falling to pieces. That's on Lerner, as are the motivations for MON's tantrum, but MON doing what he did when he did it doesn't exactly reflect well on him. It could have been spent better but every club has misses with transfers. For me, i just look at what it took for city and spurs to consistently get top 4 and how long it took them. We didn't come close to that really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted March 2, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 2, 2019 (edited) But it was just Milner who had left us that summer. While he was undoubtedly an important player for us, it wasn’t exactly a mass exodus. At that point he still had loads of the players he brought in - Friedel, L.Young, Warnock, Collins, Dunne, Cuellar, Reo Coker, Petrov, Downing, A.Young, Carew, Heskey....Habib Beye. That’s more than a full team there, plus Gabby was still relatively useful. Christ, looking at that lot, how much did we spend on them in price tags and salaries and how much did we recoup? (just made money on Ashley Young and Downing I think?) Lerner was cutting back, but considering we went on to bring in Bent and Makoun for about £30m six months later, I think there was more to it than just that. I don’t lay the blame for where we are at MON’s feet, he was overall a good manager for us (but not as good as some or indeed he may think - funny how for such a wonderful manager none of the massive clubs seemed interested in him). The vast majority of the blame lies elsewhere, but some of the problems we have now can be traced back to when he was here. Edit - forgot about Curtis Davies, add him to the squad. Edited March 2, 2019 by Shropshire Lad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Shropshire Lad said: But it was just Milner who had left us that summer. While he was undoubtedly an important player for us, it wasn’t exactly a mass exodus. At that point he still had loads of the players he brought in - Friedel, L.Young, Warnock, Collins, Dunne, Cuellar, Reo Coker, Petrov, Downing, A.Young, Carew, Heskey....Habib Beye. That’s more than a full team there, plus Gabby was still relatively useful. Christ, looking at that lot, how much did we spend on them in price tags and salaries and how much did we recoup? (just made money on Ashley Young and Downing I think?) Lerner was cutting back, but considering we went on to bring in Bent and Makoun for about £30m six months later, I think there was more to it than just that. I don’t lay the blame for where we are at MON’s feet, he was overall a good manager for us (but not as good as some or indeed he may think - funny how for such a wonderful manager none of the massive clubs seemed interested in him). The vast majority of the blame lies elsewhere, but some of the problems we have now can be traced back to when he was here. Edit - forgot about Curtis Davies, add him to the squad. Mon treated curt like absolute fecking garbage one reason I absolutely dislike the bloke Edited March 2, 2019 by Demitri_C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screwdriver Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 So O'neill walked out of a rolling contract before the season started. and gets slated......even like 10 years on. Saunders walked out of a rolling contract mid season with the champions league semi final around the corner....turned up next week at the blues!! and no one bats an eyelid!!!! you've all been brainwashed by a corrupt media. the evening mail. It's time to look again at the brilliant days we had under O'Neill. Going to Old Trafford and doing them in their own yard. Flying round all the top piss up cities in europe! 4 or 5 Villa lads in the england squad on a regular basis. Carew front page pissed up in a lapdancing club then back page smashing in a hatrick against reading. those days were the best days. We are so boring compared to back then. all we get is "one day we will play as good as brentford." ........great! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 18 hours ago, Demitri_C said: A smuch as I destest Mon now you cannot say he wasn't. Our best manager in the last 10-15years. He gave us quite a high level of success and we were robbed in the cup. Final. For tge money he spent he only finished in the same position as O'Leary. Complete hypejob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 On 01/03/2019 at 09:36, sne said: For me it was when he decided to throw the game away against CSKA in the cup. That was the beginning of the end. I'm certain that's when some of our players lost the passion to play and stay here. UEFA cup might not have a big reputation in England, but players want to win stuff and we had a real opportunity at European glory there and he treated it worse than Man C would a first round trip to Doncaster in the League Cup. Everything that happened after that game was highly predictable, even though Whelan scoring a goal was not Sure that was not exactly greatest UEFA Cup season so we could have won it. Shakhtar vs Bremen was the final. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 52 minutes ago, Zatman said: For tge money he spent he only finished in the same position as O'Leary. Complete hypejob Agreed. In retrospect, we had a golden opportunity in those early Lerner years and we totally blew it, in part because O'Neill didn't seem to believe in having a scouting network. Lerner obviously made some horrendous mistakes while he was here and the complete lack of interest towards the end was shameful but I don't think it was at all wrong for him to expect O'Neill to trim the wage bill in summer 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, Mantis said: Agreed. In retrospect, we had a golden opportunity in those early Lerner years and we totally blew it, in part because O'Neill didn't seem to believe in having a scouting network. Lerner obviously made some horrendous mistakes while he was here and the complete lack of interest towards the end was shameful but I don't think it was at all wrong for him to expect O'Neill to trim the wage bill in summer 2010. An inability to operate foreign market cost us, arguably still havent caught up. Think 3 signings MON made from abroad and even then Carew was thrown in as he fell out with Houllier. One was Salifou Was certainly better value available than Sidwell, Beye, Harewood, Heskey etc. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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