Racism in Football

[Ingram85]

Is it past the point of education? How do you get through to people who clearly don’t want to listen and seem to actively enjoy being the way they are? It’s maddening. I’d like to see prison terms for racist abuse personally, especially social media based racial abuse such as what we’ve witnessed in the last 24 hours. Serious real world repurcussions.

[tomav84]

44 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Suprised nobody chatting about this?  Must be in other threads. 

This is an issue in itself. Like it's part of society now. We all knew it was coming. 

The punishments are too light, and social media companies do nothing 

I see Leyton orient issued a 3 year ban to someone today. Seems light to me.

[tomav84]

22 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

Is it past the point of education? How do you get through to people who clearly don’t want to listen and seem to actively enjoy being the way they are? It’s maddening. I’d like to see prison terms for racist abuse personally, especially social media based racial abuse such as what we’ve witnessed in the last 24 hours. Serious real world repurcussions.

This put a stop to, or significantly reduced at least, the hooliganism in the 80s and 90s. When prison sentences were issued for it. 

[Genie]

Quote

A WORCESTER dad says he was hacked after a racist tweet was sent to footballer Marcus Rashford from his Twitter account.

The tweet posted on Sunday night following England's defeat against Italy came from Nick Scott's Twitter account but he claims he had 'nothing to do with it.'

The offensive tweet read: "@MarcusRashford that MBE needs burning ya fake. Pack them bags and get to ya own country."

The tweet from @Scottywwfc has over 500 replies from outraged football supporters who say he should be banned from ever watching or taking part in the sport.

 

I really hope they can nail him on his IP address

Link

[Davkaus]

It's amazing how many hackers choose to target Twitter to publicly disgrace someone of no consequence, rather than going after a more financially appealing target.

As wrong as his comment is, I love the idea that he should be banned from ever...playing football? I doubt he was going to have a career change at this point, lads. What are you going to do, put his photo up in Power League?

[tomav84]

4 minutes ago, Genie said:

I really hope they can nail him on his IP address

Link

to be fair, when people have been caught in the past, they don't tend to go down the 'i was hacked' route. they normally say things like 'i was drunk, stupid, and just wanted to wind him up'

interesting to see what happens with this one.

[Davkaus]

Having read it a few times, it is a truly classless and hateful tweet, suggesting a third generation immigrant can't really be English but while I think private organisations (such as WWFC, Twitter, and his employer) should have the right to take action if they see fit, I really don't think it should be a police matter.

[Genie]

1 minute ago, tomav84 said:

to be fair, when people have been caught in the past, they don't tend to go down the 'i was hacked' route. they normally say things like 'i was drunk, stupid, and just wanted to wind him up'

interesting to see what happens with this one.

Apparently Twitter will know the IP address as well as the browser, app version, device and OS type so hopefully between all of that and what he’s used previously it should be a simple case of proving what everybody suspects.

 

[tomav84]

Just now, Genie said:

Apparently Twitter will know the IP address as well as the browser, app version, device and OS type so hopefully between all of that and what he’s used previously it should be a simple case of proving what everybody suspects.

 

just had a look at his profile. a few screenshots posted by others of previous tweets (homophibic etc) and written in the same style. if he was indeed hacked, someone's done a good job of sounding like him!

[Genie]

3 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

just had a look at his profile. a few screenshots posted by others of previous tweets (homophibic etc) and written in the same style. if he was indeed hacked, someone's done a good job of sounding like him!

He needs to be made an example of, to deter others from thinking they can say what they like online without repercussion.

[villa4europe]

Absolute state of it

Twitter will do next to **** all

12 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Having read it a few times, it is a truly classless and hateful tweet, suggesting a third generation immigrant can't really be English but while I think private organisations (such as WWFC, Twitter, and his employer) should have the right to take action if they see fit, I really don't think it should be a police matter.

And because of that I think it should be a police matter unfortunately 

I'm also pretty sure that villa fans are ranked bottom of that grim list, we had the most arrests due to social media hate crime last season 

[GarethRDR]

23 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

What are you going to do, put his photo up in Power League?

It's already up in White Power League, I believe.

[Davkaus]

To be honest, I think the police response should be "report it and use the fecking block button". It's not how the law works in the UK so they will investigate, but I think the police spend far too much time investigating mean things on the internet when anything less than persistent harassments or threats should be dealt with using the "sticks and stones" philosophy. 

They hardly investigate thefts or break ins these days unless something garners sufficient social media attention, I think they should focus on more significant crimes before becoming the arbiters of what constitutes offence. A criminalised concept of "offence" is nonsense and has no place in a liberal democracy, in my view.

[Genie]

Someone should now actually hack him and post all his private information online.

That would be some funny karma.

[bobzy]

18 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

To be honest, I think the police response should be "report it and use the fecking block button". It's not how the law works in the UK so they will investigate, but I think the police spend far too much time investigating mean things on the internet when anything less than persistent harassments or threats should be dealt with using the "sticks and stones" philosophy. 

They hardly investigate thefts or break ins these days unless something garners sufficient social media attention, I think they should focus on more significant crimes before becoming the arbiters of what constitutes offence. A criminalised concept of "offence" is nonsense and has no place in a liberal democracy, in my view.

Tough one - though I don't think this should be treated as "sticks and stones".  I'd have ridiculous fines levied on anyone found guilty of racist language on social media.  Found guilty?  £10k fine pal.

[HanoiVillan]

What I find very frustrating is that this is a tweet sent directly to Rashford.

A hard problem for social media companies is that proactively moderating their entire platforms is impossible, because the volume of traffic is far beyond any human ability to moderate. However, there were something like 600 players who went to the Euros. The accounts of players in a high profile tournament absolutely are within the possible scope of proactive moderation. There's no good reason at all why Twitter couldn't have people monitoring the tweets sent to players during and immediately after tournaments, and deleting those that clearly break rules without needing everyone in the world to report them and then a months-long review process.

[Panto_Villan]

20 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

What I find very frustrating is that this is a tweet sent directly to Rashford.

A hard problem for social media companies is that proactively moderating their entire platforms is impossible, because the volume of traffic is far beyond any human ability to moderate. However, there were something like 600 players who went to the Euros. The accounts of players in a high profile tournament absolutely are within the possible scope of proactive moderation. There's no good reason at all why Twitter couldn't have people monitoring the tweets sent to players during and immediately after tournaments, and deleting those that clearly break rules without needing everyone in the world to report them and then a months-long review process.

I'm not sure it's realistic to be monitoring all the inboxes of all athletes at the Euros 24/7 in real-time, and even if it was, what happens at the Olympics when the number of athletes is at least an order of magnitude higher?

I mentioned this in the Mings thread but I think the answer is just to tie social media accounts to a real ID, so each person only has one and it uses their real name. If you get banned, you stay banned (and it's very easy for the police to identify troublemakers). I bet everyone would behave a lot better then, and it would make it much harder for fake accounts / bots to proliferate like they do at the moment.

This isn't necessarily feasible worldwide but it could certainly be rolled out in the developed world, and perhaps people could have the ability to switch their accounts to only be able to see comments / messages from verified people.

Of course there's not really any way the UK can force US companies to do that, so it's never going to happen.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Panto_Villan

[HanoiVillan]

10 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

I'm not sure it's realistic to be monitoring all the inboxes of all athletes at the Euros 24/7 in real-time, and even if it was, what happens at the Olympics when the number of athletes is at least an order of magnitude higher?

Not monitoring inboxes; you can't check people's PMs without invading privacy. I'm talking about monitoring tweets and grams. It would definitely be realistic, you just have to hire people. The point is they don't *want* to do it, because it would set a precedent, not that it's not possible.

16 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

I mentioned this in the Mings thread but I think the answer is just to tie social media accounts to a real ID, so each person only has one and it uses their real name.

I am completely against ending anonymity on principle (and to be honest it's no less work for social media platforms to check the ID of every user anyway).

[villa4europe]

The rules and costs of data protection means they'll never do it 

I would guess that even with the current set up their security is one of their highest costs, adding more personal data and then how that's stored and managed won't make it better for them 

The suggestion that you scan your ID in, driving license or passport, to gain access to twitter, the scale of the management of that for them would put them out of business and they're not exactly a small company 

Imagine if you had to do that to get on VT, how's limpid managing it? VT would be gone 

[Panto_Villan]

21 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Not monitoring inboxes; you can't check people's PMs without invading privacy. I'm talking about monitoring tweets and grams. It would definitely be realistic, you just have to hire people. The point is they don't *want* to do it, because it would set a precedent, not that it's not possible.

I am completely against ending anonymity on principle (and to be honest it's no less work for social media platforms to check the ID of every user anyway).

Hmm. There's 500 million tweets sent per day. I'm not sure what percentage of the traffic is sent to high profile people during a major event, but if we assume 1% then it's 5 million tweets, so that's 3,500 tweets every minute. If a moderator can read and judge a tweet every 15 seconds then you need 900 moderators working at all times to deal with that volume. Assuming each person works 7 hours a day you need a team of 4,340 moderators to check each tweet in realtime assuming nobody is ever absent, which seems achieveable. But if it's 10% then you need 43,400 moderators, which is much larger number, so I guess it depends on what the variables are.

There's definitely automated third-party systems that mean people can be checked against ID databases (every major regulated financial institution does it for anti money laundering purposes), so it's far less work than you think.  Why are you against ending anonymity in principle?

Edited July 13, 2021 by Panto_Villan