Dean Smith

[Jay.P.A]

4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

No worries. I probably give this impression that I am anti Smith but I am not j wnat him to succeed but I am worried he can't handle the pressure here. Its a different animal to brentford. Last thing we need is to gamble give him the little money we have to bring in players and then we have to sack him mid season again and then have this whole scenerio again. 

For me there has to be improvement form now until end of season otherwise we will have to look at a change. If that were to happen jokanovic is the man I think. 

Mate - he is the head coach. This is bigger then Smith. He has a big input in players but our set up now has a bigger input. We as a club are evolving and we're not like we were for the last two decades. 

[Demitri_C]

14 minutes ago, Jay.P.A said:

Mate - he is the head coach. This is bigger then Smith. He has a big input in players but our set up now has a bigger input. We as a club are evolving and we're not like we were for the last two decades. 

He Is Head Coach So Has To Take Responsibility For the recent poor form. it really is not good enough. there ha sto be improvement by end of season. simple as that. w ecan afford another gamble hoping he might get better. 

[Jay.P.A]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

He Is Head Coach So Has To Take Responsibility For the recent poor form. it really is not good enough. there ha sto be improvement by end of season. simple as that. w ecan afford another gamble hoping he might get better. 

Smith hasn't cowered away from responsibility has he? His post match interviews are pretty much spot on when it comes to describing what happened during the game. If we were shit he says we were shit. Even when we were good he says there are things we could improve. He has high standards for himself and his teams.

You've got to remember what the requirements and the expectations of the club are now....complete overhaul. With all due respect, if we get play-off by some miracle then great, if not I don't think the owners are too worried about results this season. 

Don't get me wrong, recent results have not been good. But I don't think some of the performances have been as shit as people think. Confidence is low, creativity in this team has been at a premium, and the experienced players just can't perform anymore due to ability and motivation.  

[Demitri_C]

6 minutes ago, Jay.P.A said:

Smith hasn't cowered away from responsibility has he? His post match interviews are pretty much spot on when it comes to describing what happened during the game. If we were shit he says we were shit. Even when we were good he says there are things we could improve. He has high standards for himself and his teams.

You've got to remember what the requirements and the expectations of the club are now....complete overhaul. With all due respect, if we get play-off by some miracle then great, if not I don't think the owners are too worried about results this season. 

Don't get me wrong, recent results have not been good. But I don't think some of the performances have been as shit as people think. Confidence is low, creativity in this team has been at a premium, and the experienced players just can't perform anymore due to ability and motivation.  

I have accepted we won't get play offs this year. but regardless of that I want to at least have some optimism going into next year and I don't have much of that at present due to recent results. 

With regards to post match comments he seems to be blaming injuries a lot recently. Leeds have had worse injuries than us yet have maintained a steady league position. its part of the game. 

Whats Worrying For me is that Smith cannot come up with a winning formula without a key player. let's say Tammy picks up a injury then what? You Have To Come Up With Winning Tactics sometimes without your best players. Even Bruce could manage that. 

That's a real concern for me. 

[Jay.P.A]

4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I have accepted we won't get play offs this year. but regardless of that I want to at least have some optimism going into next year and I don't have much of that at present due to recent results. 

With regards to post match comments he seems to be blaming injuries a lot recently. Leeds have had worse injuries than us yet have maintained a steady league position. its part of the game. 

Whats Worrying For me is that Smith cannot come up with a winning formula without a key player. let's say Tammy picks up a injury then what? You Have To Come Up With Winning Tactics sometimes without your best players. Even Bruce could manage that. 

That's a real concern for me. 

The comparison with Leeds is a terrible I'm afraid mate - they have a good depth in their squad - they have what ultimately what we want to be able to do - if a player gets injured then another one can come in and fit directly into their system. 

They're ahead of us because of the way they play footy because of the development in the squad. They've been down in the Championship so long but it's great to see they've finally got their act together. They're sitting 3rd in the table but they did just lose to QPR who are the worst team in the league at the moment in terms of form, so poor results will happen. 

I agree with you in terms of a winning formula - however we are creating enough chances to win games in every game of this poor run. If we weren't creating anything then I'd also be very worried. 

[Demitri_C]

18 minutes ago, Jay.P.A said:

The comparison with Leeds is a terrible I'm afraid mate - they have a good depth in their squad - they have what ultimately what we want to be able to do - if a player gets injured then another one can come in and fit directly into their system. 

They're ahead of us because of the way they play footy because of the development in the squad. They've been down in the Championship so long but it's great to see they've finally got their act together. They're sitting 3rd in the table but they did just lose to QPR who are the worst team in the league at the moment in terms of form, so poor results will happen. 

I agree with you in terms of a winning formula - however we are creating enough chances to win games in every game of this poor run. If we weren't creating anything then I'd also be very worried. 

They actually do not have the squad. Look how many youngsters they have had to fill in. Look at the one at villa Park they had to put some youngsters in and we were cruising to win that game then Bielsa did a few changes and won the game. 

When has Smith done that for us? He hasn't managed to utilise his squad to their best. Struggling to get the best out of adomah, El ghazi Kodjia. 

Also note Smith only managed a measly point against QPR out of six. 

[Jay.P.A]

5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

They actually do not have the squad. Look how many youngsters they have had to fill in. Look at the one at villa Park they had to put some youngsters in and we were cruising to win that game then Bielsa did a few changes and won the game. 

When has Smith done that for us? He hasn't managed to utilise his squad to their best. Struggling to get the best out of adomah, El ghazi Kodjia. 

Also note Smith only managed a measly point against QPR out of six. 

Please see the stats when we first faced QPR during Smith's first few games - I'm sure QPR were the top form team when we played them - They had about 3/4 clean sheets and went 6/7 games unbeaten. 

The more recent one was more indicative of your point. 

[AvfcRigo82]

25 minutes ago, Jay.P.A said:

The comparison with Leeds is a terrible I'm afraid mate - they have a good depth in their squad - they have what ultimately what we want to be able to do - if a player gets injured then another one can come in and fit directly into their system. 

They're ahead of us because of the way they play footy because of the development in the squad. They've been down in the Championship so long but it's great to see they've finally got their act together. They're sitting 3rd in the table but they did just lose to QPR who are the worst team in the league at the moment in terms of form, so poor results will happen. 

I agree with you in terms of a winning formula - however we are creating enough chances to win games in every game of this poor run. If we weren't creating anything then I'd also be very worried. 

 

4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

They actually do not have the squad. Look how many youngsters they have had to fill in. Look at the one at villa Park they had to put some youngsters in and we were cruising to win that game then Bielsa did a few changes and won the game. 

When has Smith done that for us? He hasn't managed to utilise his squad to their best. Struggling to get the best out of adomah, El ghazi Kodjia. 

Also note Smith only managed a measly point against QPR out of six. 

I don't think the comparison with Leeds is that bad really and @Demitri_C raises a good point.

Leeds have had far less to spend than us and yet have brought in an ambitious manager who has a clue, to build something big with them.

we had a solid team up until the Leeds game and even more in our pockets when we see they are down to their bare bones 'player wise when they bring on a 16 year old having already started with a 17 year old in their starting XI that day.

Both kids and also tbeir young goalkeeper were an absolute nightmare to us all game and it got them the 3pts.

As stated, unless DS hasn't got a big name to throw in as replacement he becomes a bit rabbit in the headlights for me.

[Mark Albrighton]

21 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

 When has Smith done that for us? He hasn't managed to utilise his squad to their best. Struggling to get the best out of adomah, El ghazi Kodjia. 

Thing is though mate, just on these three examples is there much more he can realistically get out of them?

We saw the best out of Kodjia two years ago. Sometimes it was to the detriment of the team as a whole but he was much more useful back then. Since his injury, neither Bruce or Smith has had him back to that form. I think the Kodjia from then has gone. A moment of brilliance occasionally but nowhere near as often.

Adomah was blistering for about half a season or so, but since March last season, neither Bruce or Smith has managed to get him anywhere near that level. I think the Adomah from then has gone too. 

El Ghazi, well I don’t know. He’s young and inconsistent but again the levels he’s been performing at are not unlike the ones under Bruce. 

They could be performing a bit better and they still have their moments, but I don’t think it’s likely that either Kodjia or Adomah will reach the level of performances they did two years and one year ago (respectively).

[Jay.P.A]

18 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

 

I don't think the comparison with Leeds is that bad really and @Demitri_C raises a good point.

Leeds have had far less to spend than us and yet have brought in an ambitious manager who has a clue, to build something big with them.

we had a solid team up until the Leeds game and even more in our pockets when we see they are down to their bare bones 'player wise when they bring on a 16 year old having already started with a 17 year old in their starting XI that day.

Both kids and also tbeir young goalkeeper were an absolute nightmare to us all game and it got them the 3pts.

As stated, unless DS hasn't got a big name to throw in as replacement he becomes a bit rabbit in the headlights for me.

Isn't that what we're trying to do though? Our academy players have gone out on loan     for that exact reason. We'll be able to call on our youngsters next season for that purpose. Squad depth and blooding in our own, younger players who will be able to play Smith's high pressing, high tempo football. 

Bielsa has had time with his squad to produce these results - that's what we need to give Smith. 

[lexicon]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

What's smith's 2019 record I hear you ask?

W 1

D 5

L 3

And that win was against the worst team in the league at home. 

But yeah he is doing a good job 

 

Who's saying he's doing a good job exactly?

[AvfcRigo82]

26 minutes ago, Jay.P.A said:

Isn't that what we're trying to do though? Our academy players have gone out on loan     for that exact reason. We'll be able to call on our youngsters next season for that purpose. Squad depth and blooding in our own, younger players who will be able to play Smith's high pressing, high tempo football. 

Bielsa has had time with his squad to produce these results - that's what we need to give Smith. 

It is what we are trying to do in the long run I believe? although you state about our academy players going out on loan - from what I am reading in the loan watch thread that of everyone out on loan there is no one really setting the place on fire at these other clubs they are currently at to even suggest they would make any difference playing here. 

Beisla arrived 8 months ago and would not have had any of the youth he played in our game out on loan in the short time under him but probably more in training at their own base to get him ready to first team level in a short space of time learning Beisla's philosophy's etc.

But no, ours go out to Cambridge Utd and barely feature, when they do it's nothing special. I don't see any of our current loaned out crop being called upon next season.

I look forward to this DS high tempo high pressing attacking football were all going to be witnessing from next season.

Edited February 27, 2019 by AvfcRigo82

[bannedfromHandV]

1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

It is what we are trying to do in the long run I believe? although you state about our academy players going out on loan - from what I am reading in the loan watch thread that of everyone out on loan there is no one really setting the place on fire at these other clubs they are currently at to even suggest they would make any difference playing here. 

Beisla arrived 8 months ago and would not have had any of the youth he played in our game out on loan in the short time under him but probably more in training at their own base to get him ready to first team level in a short space of time learning Beisla's philosophy's etc.

Half of them aren't even getting into the first team at the likes of Newport and Cambridge.

But they're going to be great for us next season, allegedly.

[Jay.P.A]

1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

It is what we are trying to do in the long run I believe? although you state about our academy players going out on loan - from what I am reading in the loan watch thread that of everyone out on loan there is no one really setting the place on fire at these other clubs they are currently at to even suggest they would make any difference playing here. 

Beisla arrived 8 months ago and would not have had any of the youth he played in our game out on loan in the short time under him but probably more in training at their own base to get him ready to first team level in a short space of time learning Beisla's philosophy's etc.

They don't have necessarily set the world alight on loan in order to come back and be a part of Villa's future - case and point Gabby Agbonlahor. When we went out on loan he didn't do much but when he came back he went on to become Villa's leading top goalscorer in the PL. 

It's all about experience. Plus some of these players have only just got there a few weeks ago. Time to adjust. 

[AvfcRigo82]

9 minutes ago, Jay.P.A said:

They don't have necessarily set the world alight on loan in order to come back and be a part of Villa's future - case and point Gabby Agbonlahor. When we went out on loan he didn't do much but when he came back he went on to become Villa's leading top goalscorer in the PL. 

It's all about experience. Plus some of these players have only just got there a few weeks ago. Time to adjust. 

True bur you asked isn't that what we're trying to do though. I.e blood youngsters like Biesla has managed to in 8 months and their in the first team within 6 months of his arrival.

We send ours out for months on end to low league clubs that barely even feature etc but suddenly next season theres a chance... ??

- But realistically more chance of being sent back out on loan somewhere again.

How many years did we hear of Agbonlahors hype in the youth team.. loaned loaned.. in he comes 2 seasons later.

Hepburn-Murphy - how many times has he been nominated as the answer to all our problems.. must be going on 3 seasons nearly. Yet he is out on loan at League 2 Cambridge Utd and has done nothing.

But he may fit in with the Dean Smith Brentford Way upon his return?.. 

I doubt it.

Edited February 27, 2019 by AvfcRigo82

[Jay.P.A]

Just now, AvfcRigo82 said:

True bur you asked isn't that what we're trying to do though. I.e blood youngsters like Biesla has managed to in 8 months and their in the first team within 6 months of his arrival.

We send ours out for months on end to low league clubs that barely even feature etc but suddenly next season theres a chance... ??

- But realistically more chance of being sent back out on loan somewhere again.

How many years did we hear of Agbonlahors hype in the youth team.. loaned loaned.. in he comes 2 seasons later.

Hepburn-Murphy - how many times has he been nominated as the answer to all our problems.. must be going on 3 seasons nearly. Yet he is out on loan at League 2 Cambridge Utd and has done nothing.

But he may fit in with the Dean Smith Brentford Way upon his return?.. 

I dount it.

No what I said was, we want to be in the same position where - if there were injuries in our team, we have the squad so that a player can come in and do a job and we can carry on playing in 'our' system - and not rely heavily on individual brilliance every game. 

We could have our youngsters come in and support the first team and apply pressure for competition for places. 

[AvfcRigo82]

11 minutes ago, Jay.P.A said:

We could have our youngsters come in and support the first team and apply pressure for competition for places. 

Why has DS not done this with a few already?

If he is wanting to introduce his style of playing surely it would be in his interests to be having certain youngsters in his training sessions getting them used to what he is trying to do in the future?

 

[MaVilla]

9 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Why has DS not done this with a few already?

If he is wanting to introduce his style of playing surely it would be in his interests to be having certain youngsters in his training sessions getting them used to what he is trying to do in the future?

 

He did habe a few on the youth players training with the senior team, and then he sent some of them out on loan to harden up/learn how to handle men's football.

[Jay.P.A]

6 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Why has DS not done this with a few already?

If he is wanting to introduce his style of playing surely it would be in his interests to be having certain youngsters in his training sessions getting them used to what he is trying to do in the future?

 

Because we don't want to destroy them before we need them. 

Imagine our youngsters come on now while we are playing shit - it's sink or swim time. Bring them on to experience this toxic atmosphere we've had in games in the last few weeks? That could potentially ruin their careers and potential.  

Best thing to do is send them out on loan, gain that experience of playing in a team where the expectations aren't so high and they can experience 'real' football. Bring them back at the end of the season and review if they'll be able to play the 'Smith' way and introduce them to Smith's pre-season and training. 

There's a reason why we aren't paid to do this and our owners have put people in place to put these strategies in place. 

 

[Stockport_Villain]

I’ve read a lot on this thread and often find myself swearing I’m not going to look at it again but have some kind of weird need to inflict further angst on myself. The problem I have is dealing with comments about Smith from supporters that want immediate success and when this fails to materialise it must all be Smith fault because of his tactics, decisions etc.

I 100% get the frustration that were not doing what we thought we would be doing and challenging the top 6 but life is not that straight forward.

You look at the teams Smith has previously had and the way they play and the personnel he has had to play that way which has brought him success. Then  you look at the players he’s inherited and how they tried to play, initially with success, but cannot keep up with his demand because they are not his type of player.

If we want success there is a much better chance by giving Smith time to get his playing staff sorted in the summer, with a full preseason of players that sign for him because they want to play for him. Rather than players inherited who aren’t capable or don’t want to. Only at this point will we know whether Smith is capable of taking us to where we all aspire.

In my head to get rid of him before he has had this opportunity would be madness and driven by the insatiable desire of some to change because we haven’t has immediate success. Life isn’t like this and people need to be given a proper change to succeed.

Dean Smith is my man 100% .