Dean Smith

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Probably? But if we'd have kept Smith the chances of us going down last season would've been much greater.

No it wouldnt

Smith never even had a fully fit squad to choose from in them first 11 games

[Mantis]

Just now, Zatman said:

No it wouldnt

Smith never even had a fully fit squad to choose from in them first 11 games

Yes so you keep saying, but as I also said I don't think we'd have gotten 4 wins out of 6 from those next 6 games after he was sacked if he had stayed on. That bounce was ultimately what kept us out of the relegation battle.

[DCJonah]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I think Dean Smith could do better with this squad than Gerrard.

The problem is we wouldn't have this squad if we'd kept Smith

Why?

 

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Are you saying is no way we would have got 30 points in 27 games to keep us up

Exactly this. 

Buendia wasn't fully up to speed. Bailey was injured. We'd had a shit pre season.

The idea that we couldn't have picked up the 2nd half of the season is Laughable to me. 

We won at Old Trafford a month before he was sacked. 

3 games before he was sacked we were 5 minutes from beating wolves and being in the top 7. 

 

[Zatman]

10 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Exactly this. 

Buendia wasn't fully up to speed. Bailey was injured. We'd had a shit pre season.

The idea that we couldn't have picked up the 2nd half of the season is Laughable to me. 

We won at Old Trafford a month before he was sacked. 

3 games before he was sacked we were 5 minutes from beating wolves and being in the top 7. 

 

Also Traore and Trez were not fit who both did well for Smith weren't fit

[DCJonah]

7 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Also Traore and Trez were not fit who both did well for Smith weren't fit

Exactly. 

We started v Watford with Young and El Ghazi on the pitch. 

We started v Brentford with Young and Carney playing CM. I don't even think that's a good championship midfield. 

 

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Why?

 

Because we wouldn’t have attracted certain players even if we stayed up. And we probably wouldn’t have stayed up 

[DCJonah]

7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Because we wouldn’t have attracted certain players even if we stayed up. And we probably wouldn’t have stayed up 

I think as @Zatmanpointed out, the points needed to stay up weren't that difficult and we had a more going for us to suggest a stronger 2nd half. 

And I really don't see much of a difference between the calibre of player Gerrard has signed and the likes of Ings, Bailey, Buendia and Martinez. In fact I'd say there's really no difference. 

Coutinho as a name is the only one and he hasn't been good enough on the pitch. 

[Stevo985]

32 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I think as @Zatmanpointed out, the points needed to stay up weren't that difficult and we had a more going for us to suggest a stronger 2nd half. 

And I really don't see much of a difference between the calibre of player Gerrard has signed and the likes of Ings, Bailey, Buendia and Martinez. In fact I'd say there's really no difference. 

Coutinho as a name is the only one and he hasn't been good enough on the pitch. 

Didn’t say he had been. He’s been shit. But he’s still part of this squad and is a player we wouldn’t have signed without Gerrard. I think the same goes for Digne. 

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Didn’t say he had been. He’s been shit. But he’s still part of this squad and is a player we wouldn’t have signed without Gerrard. I think the same goes for Digne. 

But do you not think we'd get players equally as good?

Was Digne a higher profile prem player than Ings? 

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

But do you not think we'd get players equally as good?

Was Digne a higher profile prem player than Ings? 

I don’t know. That wasn’t the question 

[Keyblade]

Not even sure what's so special about the supposed Gerrard pull factor. So far of the 2 players you could realistically attribute to Gerrard, Digne is not looking a patch on POTS Matt Targett's time at Villa and Coutinho is looking a shadow of the player he once was and currently inferior to Buendia who we signed before Gerrard joined. Nobody thought we'd be able to pull Emi Martinez and Ross Barkley (I know) when we did. I doubt the manager has much pull, all things considered. At least not compared to the club.

[LondonLax]

Of the two “Gerrard players” (Coutinho and Digne) they are the two players we least needed. Buendia and Targett would have played under Smith instead and they are both fine.

Kamara and Diego Carlos would have been interesting to see in Smiths side.  

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

I don’t know. That wasn’t the question 

You said we wouldn't attract certain players. 

I just don't see what the difference is between a Digne and an Ings profile player. Or a Kamara or a Bailey type signing. 

I think it's a bit of a myth that Gerrard has some great pulling power. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by DCJonah

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

Not even sure what's so special about the supposed Gerrard pull factor. So far of the 2 players you could realistically attribute to Gerrard, Digne is not looking a patch on POTS Matt Targett's time at Villa and Coutinho is looking a shadow of the player he once was and currently inferior to Buendia who we signed before Gerrard joined. Nobody thought we'd be able to pull Emi Martinez and Ross Barkley (I know) when we did. I doubt the manager has much pull, all things considered. At least not compared to the club.

It's all money anyway. Digne wouldn't join if we didn't make it worthwhile just as Ings wouldn't have signed for Smith without the huge payday. 

[Stevo985]

33 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You said we wouldn't attract certain players. 

I just don't see what the difference is between a Digne and an Ings profile player. Or a Kamara or a Bailey type signing. 

I think it's a bit of a myth that Gerrard has some great pulling power. 

The question was would Dean Smith do better with THIS squad?

My answer is the point is moot because we wouldn’t have this squad. I don’t believe we’d have signed Coutinho or Digne. The other signings are anybody’s guess as to how much influence Gerrard had. 
 

This isn’t some sort of defence of Gerrard. We may well have an even better squad if we’d kept Smith. Or we might have got relegated. 
 

But we wouldn’t have this squad 

[MaVilla]

9 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I think Dean Smith could do better with this squad than Gerrard.

The problem is we wouldn't have this squad if we'd kept Smith

we just need a proper manager, Gerrard was a huge mistake.

Smith going was the right choice, the problem is we made a huge f*** up getting Gerrard.

TBH tho, i do think we have signed some very good players under Gerrard, so i will give him that, but he is incompetent with regard to tactics & formation.

give me Potter or Poch pls.......i think either of those could get these players doing better.

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

Not even sure what's so special about the supposed Gerrard pull factor. So far of the 2 players you could realistically attribute to Gerrard, Digne is not looking a patch on POTS Matt Targett's time at Villa and Coutinho is looking a shadow of the player he once was and currently inferior to Buendia who we signed before Gerrard joined. Nobody thought we'd be able to pull Emi Martinez and Ross Barkley (I know) when we did. I doubt the manager has much pull, all things considered. At least not compared to the club.

Didn't Kamara sign purely because of Gerrard?

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

Didn't Kamara sign purely because of Gerrard?

I wouldn't say so, no. I would say whatever Lange and Purselow sold him on the project + the 5m/year salary had just as much if not more sway than the chance to play for Steven Gerrard, who while an iconic player in his day, that doesn't say much about him as a manager. I don't think players, or at least their agents are making huge career decisions based on how cool it would be to play for their idols. This was his quote when he joined:

Quote

"When I met with Steven [Gerrard], Christian [Purslow, chief executive] and Johan [Lange, sporting director] in my home I knew Aston Villa was for me. Their ambition and determination to succeed matches my own. I cannot wait for pre-season to get going."

On Gerrard:

Quote

“When the coach comes to see you at home, when he makes the trip, when he explains the project, his ambition for me in the years to come, I take this into account.

“Especially when it comes from Steven Gerrard, one of the best midfielders in the world in his position. It leaned in my decision. I can’t wait to join him to work.”

Yeah he was part of it, but he didn't sign purely because of Gerrard. Had it been Dean Smith or Roberto Di Matteo or whoever, I doubt it would have made much of a difference.

[Stevo985]

Digne is absolutely miles better than Targett