Dean Smith

[M_Afro]

7 hours ago, Indigo said:

Just curious for curiosity sake, there are certain folk in this thread that right or wrong are seen as "anti Smith" that actually alluded as such as early as the opening few pages on this very thread where they deemed him not up to the job and so forth. Just wondering, if we're to assume the "job" was to get Villa back into and possibly solidify their spot in the Premier League, are you willing to admit you were wrong or is this such a point of pride that this isn't possible?

Just curious like.

I never wanted us to appoint Smith but I would never call myself anti-Smith. I think that most fans love Dean, I just felt that his cv was a little underwhelming to be considered to be manager of our great club. 
In his time as manager there have been some great spells where he has really won me over but the nagging doubts keep returning. I still want Dean to turn things around but for various reasons that I have posted over the past week or so, I am still unsure that he is capable. I am absolutely certain that he is on the edge now and a decent run must be forthcoming. Hopefully it starts with a sensible balanced team selection on Sunday, a motivated team, a good performance and something other than another defeat.

[DCJonah]

9 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Regardless we were still a shambles. During that horrible run over Christmas, we had a central defence of James Bree and Mile Jedinak, with Neil Taylor supporting them on the left and Nyland/Kalinic in nets. Andre Green, Glen Whelan and Yanick Bolasie were vital members of the first team. 

Yes, there were some high quality individuals interspersed amongst them, but overall it wasn't "by far the best squad in the league". Perhaps it had the most recognisable names and cost the most money, but I think that's still blinding some from reality. As it did at the time. 

Ran out of likes. Exactly this. I know it was horrible in the championship at times but it seems like some people have completely wiped their memory of it. 

[DCJonah]

6 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

How difficult is it to comprehend that looking at the facts and the weaknesses does not mean u are not a Smith supporter. Blinding yourself to reality is not a great idea, it tends to end in disappointment. 

Like claiming we signed Reina in the championship. Or ignoring the state of the club when he took over. Or that the sheff u ghost goal kept us up. Or like you've just ignored the team put out in that Norwich game. Or ignoring the reason we had to spend so much money that first summer up. 

I could go on. 

[Mark Albrighton]

7 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

Weakened team is a BS excuse, they were league Champions and the better team. So we got a point from the last 2 games and still only finished 3 clear of 7th. I am not sure what point you are making, you appear to be arguing that we didn't need the 10 wins, I conceded we only needed 9 wins. How many are you saying we need from the 10 games?

I am stating that Aston Villa did not need to go on a club record 10 game winning run. That is literally it. You have already acknowledged that we didn’t. I was then correcting you as you appeared to be under the impression we lost both of the final two matches.

I have no idea why we’re trying to pull apart one of the most enjoyable periods in the club’s recent history. I have no idea why we’re so interested in the 12 games that preceded it which took place coming up to 4 years ago.

Utterly bizarre.

[Vive_La_Villa]

20 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

I am stating that Aston Villa did not need to go on a club record 10 game winning run. That is literally it. You have already acknowledged that we didn’t. I was then correcting you as you appeared to be under the impression we lost both of the final two matches.

I have no idea why we’re trying to pull apart one of the most enjoyable periods in the club’s recent history. I have no idea why we’re so interested in the 12 games that preceded it which took place coming up to 4 years ago.

Utterly bizarre.

I have to admit I don’t really get it either. It’s like saying we cant talk about Fergies first league title without mentioning the 5 years he won nothing. Or perhaps Pep and Klopps success as you have to remember how bad their respective teams were in their first years in charge.  Extreme examples I admit but it’s all relative.  

Edited October 29, 2021 by Vive_La_Villa

[jim]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Yet you were happy to bet me £100 that Smith wouldn’t get us promoted by the end of his second season in charge.  Weren’t so confident back then I see. 

Yet context is key. DC was talking about how we were pre Smith. That bet was taken during our 2 wins in 12 slump.

[Mark Albrighton]

3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I have to admit I don’t really get it either. It’s like saying we cant talk about Fergies first league title without mentioning the 5 years he won nothing. Or perhaps Pep and Klopps success as you have to remember how bad their respective teams were in their first years in charge.  Extreme examples I admit but it’s all relative.  

That 95/96 season when Man Utd came back from 12 points behind Newcastle - well what the hell were they doing 12 points behind Newcastle in the first place? Very poor from Ferguson.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, jim said:

Yet context is key. DC was talking about how we were pre Smith. That bet was taken during our 2 wins in 12 slump.

Fair point but it also shows how quick people were to write him off during a poor run of form in his first 4 months in charge.

[jim]

15 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Fair point but it also shows how quick people were to write him off during a poor run of form in his first 4 months in charge.

True, but it loops back to my original point a couple of days ago. It’s those long spells of looking turgid every season, with no sign of improvement are why I don’t think he’s the man to take us forward. 

[Mark Albrighton]

1 minute ago, jim said:

True, but it loops back to my original point a couple of days ago. It’s those long spells of looking turgid every season, with no sign of improvement are why I don’t think he’s the man to take us forward. 

And yet there has been improvement every season since he’s been here. Higher in the league each time.

THIS season might be the first one where tangible improvement - moving higher up the league, doesn’t occur.

[DCJonah]

24 minutes ago, jim said:

Yet context is key. DC was talking about how we were pre Smith. That bet was taken during our 2 wins in 12 slump.

Wait. So you were more confident getting promotion during those games with Bruce than you would have been over the next 2 seasons with Smith? You really set your stall out early on the guy. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 minutes ago, jim said:

True, but it loops back to my original point a couple of days ago. It’s those long spells of looking turgid every season, with no sign of improvement are why I don’t think he’s the man to take us forward. 

Yeh I can understand that. As I’ve said before I think the next few months are big for Smith. 

[DCJonah]

53 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

I am stating that Aston Villa did not need to go on a club record 10 game winning run. That is literally it. You have already acknowledged that we didn’t. I was then correcting you as you appeared to be under the impression we lost both of the final two matches.

I have no idea why we’re trying to pull apart one of the most enjoyable periods in the club’s recent history. I have no idea why we’re so interested in the 12 games that preceded it which took place coming up to 4 years ago.

Utterly bizarre.

Because it's how you take away from the achievement of going up first time. 

Utterly bizarre is spot on.

 

[DCJonah]

13 minutes ago, jim said:

True, but it loops back to my original point a couple of days ago. It’s those long spells of looking turgid every season, with no sign of improvement are why I don’t think he’s the man to take us forward. 

I mean, that's just not true. 

We've improved every season. What you're saying is he isn't allowed to have a bad spell. But as it's been pointed out, a lot of managers in this league have bad spells. 

[DCJonah]

1st season - bad spell, followed by record breaking win streak and promotion. Genuinely impossible to show a higher level of improvement than that. 

2nd season - looking like we were going down pre lockdown. After, slight improvement but still in serious trouble and then turned it around to survive with some big results at the end of the season. In terms of the future of this club, that improvement was massive for us. 

3rd season - yes we had a bad spell, but if you don't take into account the covid outbreak and the Grealish injury then it's a pointless debate. However we did still finish the season with wins against spurs and Chelsea and with a points total that would usually see you in the top 8. 

We've shown improvement every single time we've had a bad spell. It's just a lie to claim otherwise. 

[Woody1000]

8 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

Okay, if u want the fielding weakened side as it was not an important game and maybe the performance wasn't great does that also include Arsenal when we beat them in the league  (2nd last game of the season) which was necessary for our survival a few weeks before they played the FA Cup final and there was nothing for them to play for in the league, were they trying their best to beat us or does that argument only count when it suits the narrative?

Edit: 2nd last game of the season before last when we survived relegation by 1 point, not 2nd last game of last season

Wow!

If looking at Villa objectively (which you post quite regularly as if it’s some badge of honour) means you look to discredit a lot of what we achieve or do, then I’m glad I don’t look at my club that way.

[foreveryoung]

I think the fact is in the Prem he had showed he is frustratingly inconsistent. We still have the same errors in our game from year 1, at times can't keep hold of the ball, play very poorly. One trait of Smith's, is more often than not, the team take far too long to settle into a game also

I can't really see an improvement on this, an find it hard to understand he learns from his mistakes, he is obviously very stubborn and it shows.

I'm not asking for his head yet, but we will see up till Christmas if anything improves, next 3-4 will be the key. 

One thing's for sure, if we want to start moving onto Europa league places, he needs to get these basic errors out our game and the inconsistency we tend to play with.

An just for note, do I believe this team would improve under a different manager. It would have to be one with pedigree, but yes 100%, as hopefully he would drill a system into the squad and the Smith traits would be gone. I doubt either he would play players who continue to underperform and be more ruthless. It's obviously still to nice to play at this great club.

[DCJonah]

7 minutes ago, Woody1000 said:

Wow!

If looking at Villa objectively (which you post quite regularly as if it’s some badge of honour) means you look to discredit a lot of what we achieve or do, then I’m glad I don’t look at my club that way.

Yeah. If I felt like that, I just wouldn't bother. What's the point in being a fan, if you choose to go out of your way to shout down the good times. 

[Peter Griffin]

1 hour ago, Woody1000 said:

Wow!

If looking at Villa objectively (which you post quite regularly as if it’s some badge of honour) means you look to discredit a lot of what we achieve or do, then I’m glad I don’t look at my club that way.

How is it discrediting what we have done. It is looking at it objectively. On one hand it is said we played a weakened team but we can't acknowledge when a the opposition do that?

[blandy]

The site guidelines say

Quote

please agree to disagree, rather than prolonging debate or argument of the same points

Quote

Please stay on topic

Enough now, please Villans. Any more breaches of this and people will be having holidays from this site.