mole86 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 13 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: Did u actually read my comment? I said "I will also understand that we do not know how significant as we don't know how game would have panned out." Obviously a typo in that as it should read I 'do' as opposed to I 'will' The relevance of the post I quoted was the strange lack of acknowledgment of the different stages of the respective matches in question. Just seems an unusual caveat for a Villa fan to be making when the context is clearly important to the discussion, everyone is aware that the Sheffield United goal crossed the line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, DCJonah said: You've literally just said neither achievements were convincing seasons and you repeatedly use the ghost goal as a reason for us staying up. So yeah, not sure I agree with that one. Nothing wrong with reviewing where it's gone bad in recent games. Most things like that don't get many responses. How is that knocking what Smith has achieved? The way he did it was unconvincing but I have never knocked what he achieved, it was brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 48 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Take into account in the Championship, you could argue we had the best team by a good margin. Absolutely this! I saw it mentioned the other day it was a “miracle” he got us up that year. It was a good achievement no doubt but let’s not forget we had the one of the strongest teams in the Championship that was massively under achieving under Bruce. However, we were what, 3/4 points off the playoffs when Smith came in? With 90 odd points to play for. We strengthened further in the January so for me, getting to the playoffs and going up was good but certainly not a “miracle”. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, villalad21 said: 11 wins in the last 34 League games. Less points from 9 games than 19/20 You're mental if you believe he is under no pressure. Now come on @villalad21 you are forgetting the crucial point that we won 10 in a row in the championship and we are but a mid table team and shouldn’t expect more from Smith . Edited October 28, 2021 by thabucks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, jim said: Absolutely this! I saw it mentioned the other day it was a “miracle” he got us up that year. It was a good achievement no doubt but let’s not forget we had the one of the strongest teams in the Championship that was massively under achieving under Bruce. However, we were what, 3/4 points off the playoffs when Smith came in? With 90 odd points to play for. We strengthened further in the January so for me, getting to the playoffs and going up was good but certainly not a “miracle”. We had some strong players but no surprise people like to rewrite history to help justify their moans. We had Nyland in goal. Chester's career was cut short due to lack of cover at the back and Jedinak was playing games at CB. And we were an absolute mess, regardless of having some good players. And nearly all fans had accepted that promotion was off the cards that season. I'm sure the club have even admitted we were promoted a year ahead of schedule. Breaking a club record winning streak seems pretty miracle like IMO. It was a fantastic achievement. And had we not done it, we certainly wouldn't have been selling Jack for £100 million. But I get why a handful of you now want to downplay it. Bit like when you wanted him sacked because he wasn't going to keep us up that first year back. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, thabucks said: Now come on @villalad21 you are forgetting the crucial point that we won 10 in a row in the championship and we are but a mid table team and shouldn’t expect more from Smith . What are your reasons that we should expect more right now, at this point in the journey? I'd love to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, thabucks said: Now come on @villalad21 you are forgetting the crucial point that we won 10 in a row in the championship and we are but a mid table team and shouldn’t expect more from Smith . Are you sure we are not a relegation threatened side and are managing to hang around at the lower part of midtable because Smith is the best manager on the planet and it would be impossible for anyone to have to higher up the table. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Just now, Peter Griffin said: Are you sure we are not a relegation threatened side and are managing to hang around at the lower part of midtable because Smith is the best manager on the planet and it would be impossible for anyone to have to higher up the table. You know the argument is weak when this is the level you've got. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, DCJonah said: We had Nyland in goal. Chester's career was cut short due to lack of cover at the back and Jedinak was playing games at CB. At the risk of you rewriting history, we brought Mings and Reina in on loan in the Jan window of that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Breaking a club record winning streak seems pretty miracle like IMO. Reason we had to go on a 10 game winning run in the first place is because we only won 2 in 12 in the games leading up to it. This easily gets missed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted October 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, villalad21 said: 11 wins in the last 34 League games. Less points from 9 games than 19/20 You're mental if you believe he is under no pressure. Of the nine clubs Villa had faced at this point, five would ultimately finish 14th or below. Spurs were the highest placed club, 6th. Arsenal 8th. Burnley 10th. Everton 12th. Out of Watford, Newcastle, Brentford, Chelsea, Everton, Man Utd, Spurs, Wolves and Arsenal, how many of those do you foresee finishing 14th or below? Is it five? More than five? I think it’s two, Brentford might be on the cusp to make it three. If you’re going to compare this season with the relegation battle season at arbitrary stages, you should really provide some sort of context. Edited October 28, 2021 by Mark Albrighton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) Grealish and Tuanzebe missed about two months each of the promotion season, they were probably our two best players before their injuries, also we didn't sign Mings until the end of January, and have to remember his reputation then wasn't what it is now, most people were moaning about us signing him, if I remember rightly a lot thought he was going to play left back. When we drew with Stoke in February we were eleventh eight points off the play offs and Middlesbrough and Bristol City in fifth and sixth had games in hand, we then went into a ten game winning run to finish in the top six, doesn't matter how good your team is winning ten in a row in the championship isn't easy, you could put our current team or most other current premier league sides in the championship and they'd find it incredibly difficult to win ten in a row. Shouldn't really have any bearing on how we rate how Smith is doing now, but I don't think we should take away what a good achiement it was at the time. Edited October 28, 2021 by useless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Reason we had to go on a 10 game winning run in the first place is because we only won 2 in 12 in the games leading up to it. This easily gets missed. No it doesn't get easily missed. The club was an absolute mess, hence a cabbage being thrown at our manager and him being replaced. We were a shambles. But I guess it fits the constant unrealistic expectations from a small group, that Smith was supposed to instantly fix everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: At the risk of you rewriting history, we brought Mings and Reina in on loan in the Jan window of that season. Reina was the following season tbf. But we shouldn’t ignore the fact that team was amongst the strongest in the league and reaching the playoffs and going up was not some epic achievement. We had a weaker side with a cabbage head in charge the season before and got to the playoff final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: At the risk of you rewriting history, we brought Mings and Reina in on loan in the Jan window of that season. Yes exactly. Our squad wasn't that great was it. It wasn't Reina, it was Kalinic. And Mings was a key player in getting us up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mole86 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: At the risk of you rewriting history, we brought Mings and Reina in on loan in the Jan window of that season. No we didn’t 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, DCJonah said: What are your reasons that we should expect more right now, at this point in the journey? I'd love to know. Why shouldn’t I ? But to answer your question Smith has been given the requisite funds, time and patience for 3 years now. He has shown he can adapt and learn but there comes a time when you cannot keep being hung up past achievements to justify stagnation. Our recent form could be a blip or could be that Smith has plateaued. I have no interest in what happened 2-3 years ago when looking at the present and beyond. Smith will need to show he can deal with being an established prem manager and increasing expectations that come with the territory. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Just now, jim said: Reina was the following season tbf. But we shouldn’t ignore the fact that team was amongst the strongest in the league and reaching the playoffs and going up was not some epic achievement. We had a weaker side with a cabbage head in charge the season before and got to the playoff final. If you just looked at a piece of paper. But actually remembering the season and the situation Smith inherited, it paints a different picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: No it doesn't get easily missed. The club was an absolute mess, hence a cabbage being thrown at our manager and him being replaced. We were a shambles. But I guess it fits the constant unrealistic expectations from a small group, that Smith was supposed to instantly fix everything. A shambles that was a gnats dick away from the playoff places when Smith arrived. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 19 hours ago, thabucks said: You can read we got 55 points because of Smith - praise be and valid. You can also say with validity that we should’ve conceivably finished with more, and it’s due to Smith’s shortcomings as a top manager meant we squandered an opportunity to finish higher and maybe have contested Spurs for that weird europa conference league. So nothing to do with our world class talisman getting injured for 3 months or our squad being ravaged by covid and thus having to deal with a more congested fixture list while regaining fitness? Nah it must be Smith's nebulous shortcomings as a top manager. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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