Peter Griffin Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Just now, Mark Albrighton said: 2 wins from 12 was poor. I’m not trying to have it both ways (Kenneth). Have people been saying it was good form? Kenneth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted October 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 28, 2021 Just now, Peter Griffin said: Kenneth? Ignore, running Kenneth Williams gag. Who has claimed that 12 game (nearly) winless run was good? Smith was receiving flak for it in this very thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: Ignore, running Kenneth Williams gag. Who has claimed that 12 game (nearly) winless run was good? Smith was receiving flak for it in this very thread. It is not claiming that the 12 games were good, it is the recognition of the 10 game winning streak without reference / acknowledgement of the previous 12 games. How many comments have said he went on a 10 game winning streak to win us promotion. Yes, this is true but he wouldn't have needed to if he had won more than 2 of the previous 12. I like Smith but the discussions on here have huge difficulty recognising his weaknesses and discussing these and discussing whether Smith is actually improving these weaknesses 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 If just anyone believed that we were going to win the next four then my believing it wouldn't seem so wonderful and quotable. It might not be four straight wins but I'm pretty confident that after those four games we will have done well enough that the tone of this thread will be completely different after we've played them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted October 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said: It is not claiming that the 12 games were good, it is the recognition of the 10 game winning streak without reference / acknowledgement of the previous 12 games. How many comments have said he went on a 10 game winning streak to win us promotion. Yes, this is true but he wouldn't have needed to if he had won more than 2 of the previous 12. I like Smith but the discussions on here have huge difficulty recognising his weaknesses and discussing these and discussing whether Smith is actually improving these weaknesses That bad run occurred within the first four months of him being here. He received leeway from me because we were a mess on his arrival and he was new in post. We were rewarded for giving him time. He received leeway from me in the first season back in the premier league because I was expecting a relegation battle and he had about 14 new players to put together and form a competent side, most of whom we were unsure if they were up to scratch for the top flight. We were rewarded for giving him that time. During the poor 12 or so games the following season, he received leeway from me because of the very good showing in the first half of the season. With this current bad patch of 3 (FYI I think it will soon be 4) games I am giving him some leeway because I feel he’s earned it over the three years. He has to sort out the Watkins/Ings dynamic, maybe utilise Buendia better, it’s not his fault Bailey has been unavailable. But there are a few things he could work on. The relative state of flux since he been here can make it slightly more opaque as to whether he’s improving in certain areas. It’s not pleasant losing matches, occasionally I find myself thinking “FFS Dean”. But I’m not finding myself thinking he should go. Bad form happens to most teams. I still vividly remember Villa’s season falling apart under Gregory twenty odd years ago. Bloody hell was that a fall from grace, I dread to think what this place would have been like back then. I suspect there will come a point when Dean Smith can’t take us any further. It might be this season - if we finish, say 15th, then I think action would take place. If Villa finish 12th, a further £100m is invested and we don’t progress closer to a European spot, then it will be next season. I hope I’m wrong and he gets us there. But whatever happens I’m confident he (with the support of the board) will have left us in a seismically better position than the one he joined us in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Just curious for curiosity sake, there are certain folk in this thread that right or wrong are seen as "anti Smith" that actually alluded as such as early as the opening few pages on this very thread where they deemed him not up to the job and so forth. Just wondering, if we're to assume the "job" was to get Villa back into and possibly solidify their spot in the Premier League, are you willing to admit you were wrong or is this such a point of pride that this isn't possible? Just curious like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted October 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 28, 2021 Also, I’m not sure about this “Well the previous 12 games meant we had to go on a record run” stance. Strictly speaking I don’t think it’s completely accurate. We undoubtedly needed to win a load of matches but it was done with two league games to spare, three points clear of 7th so a draw and a defeat could have taken place along the way, I think as long as it was made up elsewhere. The run needed to be bloody good, it didn’t need to break records. But putting that to one side, it’s just a curious way of looking at it. To me it’s like reminiscing about the second leg against Tranmere but dwelling on how bad the first leg was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, Indigo said: Just curious for curiosity sake, there are certain folk in this thread that right or wrong are seen as "anti Smith" that actually alluded as such as early as the opening few pages on this very thread where they deemed him not up to the job and so forth. Just wondering, if we're to assume the "job" was to get Villa back into and possibly solidify their spot in the Premier League, are you willing to admit you were wrong or is this such a point of pride that this isn't possible? Just curious like. For what it's worth by the way I wasn't sure about his appointment at the time and thought some folk were getting carried away by Brentford looking impressive in isolated games against Villa. I was definitely wrong though and that's ok 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 22 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: That bad run occurred within the first four months of him being here. He received leeway from me because we were a mess on his arrival and he was new in post. We were rewarded for giving him time. He received leeway from me in the first season back in the premier league because I was expecting a relegation battle and he had about 14 new players to put together and form a competent side, most of whom we were unsure if they were up to scratch for the top flight. We were rewarded for giving him that time. During the poor 12 or so games the following season, he received leeway from me because of the very good showing in the first half of the season. With this current bad patch of 3 (FYI I think it will soon be 4) games I am giving him some leeway because I feel he’s earned it over the three years. He has to sort out the Watkins/Ings dynamic, maybe utilise Buendia better, it’s not his fault Bailey has been unavailable. But there are a few things he could work on. The relative state of flux since he been here can make it slightly more opaque as to whether he’s improving in certain areas. It’s not pleasant losing matches, occasionally I find myself thinking “FFS Dean”. But I’m not finding myself thinking he should go. Bad form happens to most teams. I still vividly remember Villa’s season falling apart under Gregory twenty odd years ago. Bloody hell was that a fall from grace, I dread to think what this place would have been like back then. I suspect there will come a point when Dean Smith can’t take us any further. It might be this season - if we finish, say 15th, then I think action would take place. If Villa finish 12th, a further £100m is invested and we don’t progress closer to a European spot, then it will be next season. I hope I’m wrong and he gets us there. But whatever happens I’m confident he (with the support of the board) will have left us in a seismically better position than the one he joined us in. I agree with a lot of what u are saying but there is a limit to how much time we can give him for each bad run / dip in form and as we spend more money and the longer he is in the job the amount of time he is given will, and rightly so, be reduced. There is no doubt that if/when Dean does leave Villa that he will have left us in a better position than when he joined. But that was determined about 8 months after he joined us as he won promotion for us. Thanks Deano, loads of credit for it, I am. not discounting what u achieved etc etc. But he was never going to keep the job after spending 144m on players if he was relegated. I agree 15th and he will be gone and for the recored, I believe that would be the correct decision. A couple of places above that and he may keep his job but it will be up for discussion. I do believe the expectation of NSWE is for top 10 and a push for Europe (Europa). I agree, if he stays he will be given significant funds but the following season he will be judged very harshly. If after 9 games we are in the same position as we are now he will be gone. It is not good enough this season, but his previous 3 years is keeping him in the job, next season that won't count for credit in the bank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, Indigo said: Just curious for curiosity sake, there are certain folk in this thread that right or wrong are seen as "anti Smith" that actually alluded as such as early as the opening few pages on this very thread where they deemed him not up to the job and so forth. Just wondering, if we're to assume the "job" was to get Villa back into and possibly solidify their spot in the Premier League, are you willing to admit you were wrong or is this such a point of pride that this isn't possible? Just curious like. I can't answer that as I was over the moon when we appointed Smith, it was a great choice by CP and NSWE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: Also, I’m not sure about this “Well the previous 12 games meant we had to go on a record run” stance. Strictly speaking I don’t think it’s completely accurate. We undoubtedly needed to win a load of matches but it was done with two league games to spare, three points clear of 7th so a draw and a defeat could have taken place along the way, I think as long as it was made up elsewhere. The run needed to be bloody good, it didn’t need to break records. But putting that to one side, it’s just a curious way of looking at it. To me it’s like reminiscing about the second leg against Tranmere but dwelling on how bad the first leg was. Okay we may not have need 10 wins but the two games to spare which we lost I believe but we finished 3 points above 7th so maybe we needed 9 wins out of 10. We could go into GD but then we need to look at the teams we played and if we lost the wrong game then other teams could have finished above us as they would have got another 3 points Edited October 28, 2021 by Peter Griffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted October 28, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted October 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: Okay we may not have need 10 wins but the two games to spare which we lost I believe but we finished 3 points above 7th so maybe we needed 9 wins out of 10. We could go into GD but then we need to look at the teams we played and if we lost the wrong game then other teams could have finished above us as they would have got another 3 points Drew with Leeds (them not kicking the ball out). Lost to Champions Norwich 2-1, Villa fielded a weakened team to save the key players for the play offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Just now, Mark Albrighton said: Drew with Leeds (them not kicking the ball out). Lost to Champions Norwich 2-1, Villa fielded a weakened team to save the key players for the play offs. Weakened team is a BS excuse, they were league Champions and the better team. So we got a point from the last 2 games and still only finished 3 clear of 7th. I am not sure what point you are making, you appear to be arguing that we didn't need the 10 wins, I conceded we only needed 9 wins. How many are you saying we need from the 10 games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: Weakened team is a BS excuse, they were league Champions and the better team. So we got a point from the last 2 games and still only finished 3 clear of 7th. I am not sure what point you are making, you appear to be arguing that we didn't need the 10 wins, I conceded we only needed 9 wins. How many are you saying we need from the 10 games? Mings, McGinn, Grealish, Abraham, El Ghazi were all rested that game and started Lansbury and a farewell for Hutton For somebody who claims to be a Smith supporter you really like to find ways to have a go at him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Zatman said: Mings, McGinn, Grealish, Abraham, El Ghazi were all rested that game and started Lansbury and a farewell for Hutton For somebody who claims to be a Smith supporter you really like to find ways to have a go at him Okay, if u want the fielding weakened side as it was not an important game and maybe the performance wasn't great does that also include Arsenal when we beat them in the league (2nd last game of the season) which was necessary for our survival a few weeks before they played the FA Cup final and there was nothing for them to play for in the league, were they trying their best to beat us or does that argument only count when it suits the narrative? Edit: 2nd last game of the season before last when we survived relegation by 1 point, not 2nd last game of last season Edited October 28, 2021 by Peter Griffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 21 minutes ago, Zatman said: For somebody who claims to be a Smith supporter you really like to find ways to have a go at him How difficult is it to comprehend that looking at the facts and the weaknesses does not mean u are not a Smith supporter. Blinding yourself to reality is not a great idea, it tends to end in disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 7 hours ago, useless said: If just anyone believed that we were going to win the next four then my believing it wouldn't seem so wonderful and quotable. It might not be four straight wins but I'm pretty confident that after those four games we will have done well enough that the tone of this thread will be completely different after we've played them. I believe it. I think we’ll come out of the next 4 games a lot happier. Have to keep the faith and get behind the team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 11 hours ago, jim said: A shambles that was a gnats dick away from the playoff places when Smith arrived. Yet you were happy to bet me £100 that Smith wouldn’t get us promoted by the end of his second season in charge. Weren’t so confident back then I see. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 23 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Yet you were happy to bet me £100 that Smith wouldn’t get us promoted by the end of his second season in charge. Weren’t so confident back then I see. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 I think the last few pages show sometimes its better to just let people post their stuff and show themselves up. It's a fan forum for Aston Villa and there are genuinely people trying to downplay that promotion. Amazing really. But it's OK, because they always add "but I really want Smith to stay" line or something similar every so often to show they're not always against the man. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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