tom_avfc Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, TRO said: I said many quarters....like you I thought it was ambitious, but I seem to recall muttering from the club itself....even the media picked up on it, like I say as soon as the season started it evaporated. Anybody going into the season expecting Europe was always setting themselves up for disappointment to be honest. I think there were a few interviews with players where they talked briefly about aiming for Europe. I think that's just the standard setting of high goals rather than where the club realistically thought it should be this season. As it stands we're 4/5 points off the European places. With players coming back to fitness if we can get a couple of wins on the board quickly then the mood can quickly shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 20 minutes ago, Indigo said: "Pressing" can be a vague term and dependent on a number of factors from amount of possession on so forth, and in most cases just totals the amount of pressures a team is making without further context. That 5th place is specifically for PPDA which is a bit more specific and indicative of the effectiveness of a team's pressing. I think as Smith identified in the off season - which I agree with - our main issue was how cheaply we would cede possession, and generally how poor we were at retaining it in attacking areas. Much of the recruitment - from players to Danks, and even attempted transfers such as ESR - was made in an attempt to rectify this, and it's concerning we're yet to see the fruits of this at all really, even in some of the good results, however I accept that there have certainly been some mitigating factors and that patience will be required. I have even heard pundits refer to "The half press " as in, I assume " half hearted press".....how ever that is identified. I don't see us as a particularly stand out pressing team.....I really don't. I agree with you about the rectification time for losing possession so easily....I would see that as a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 I had a dream last night that we'd suffered a second relegation the relegation didn't happen in the dream that's something that had already happened and we were in the midst of championship season, we were midtable, and I was thinking enough is enough we need a change of manager, a club like ours shouldn't be in the championship never mind struggling to make a challenge for promotion. I don't normally dream about football, but when I woke up the dream felt real, to the point where I had to question myself whether we were still a Premier League side or not, and was happy to remember that we was... I think it was like a Christmas Carol dream to tell us things things aren't so bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said: Am I misremembering? He didn’t throw a strop did he? It was Barkley who was kicking water bottles etc, Jack came off no problem but just looked gutted about it when the tv camera focused on him. I think he has to train himself to not look gutted about being subbed ever since then, as he became a meme. I don’t think we should read too much into it. Well he made a point, even turning it to a joke, about being subbed, he was obviously miffed and it seemed entitled not to be subbed. of course its a storm in a tea cup.....but as they say " a stitch in time saves nine"....its rarely one incident, that creates a culture, but many incidents going unchecked can. not saying in this case anything was major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 1 minute ago, useless said: I had a dream last night that we'd suffered a second relegation the relegation didn't happen in the dream that's something that had already happened and we were in the midst of championship season, we were midtable, and I was thinking enough is enough we need a change of manager, a club like ours shouldn't be in the championship never mind struggling to make a challenge for promotion. I don't normally dream about football, but when I woke up the dream felt real, to the point where I had to question myself whether we were still a Premier League side or not, and was happy to remember that we was... I think it was like a Christmas Carol dream to tell us things things aren't so bad. I think your still dreaming....Wake up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 7 minutes ago, tom_avfc said: Anybody going into the season expecting Europe was always setting themselves up for disappointment to be honest. I think there were a few interviews with players where they talked briefly about aiming for Europe. I think that's just the standard setting of high goals rather than where the club realistically thought it should be this season. As it stands we're 4/5 points off the European places. With players coming back to fitness if we can get a couple of wins on the board quickly then the mood can quickly shift. results, create the mood....that needs to shift.......quickly. yes a couple, would do nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 19 minutes ago, useless said: I had a dream last night that we'd suffered a second relegation the relegation didn't happen in the dream that's something that had already happened and we were in the midst of championship season, we were midtable, and I was thinking enough is enough we need a change of manager, a club like ours shouldn't be in the championship never mind struggling to make a challenge for promotion. I don't normally dream about football, but when I woke up the dream felt real, to the point where I had to question myself whether we were still a Premier League side or not, and was happy to remember that we was... I think it was like a Christmas Carol dream to tell us things things aren't so bad. I have never really understood that......The infrastructure of a club is built on sustained success, and Villa had it for many years in the past... we was one of the pioneers ( in the 30's)of sustained success and the pursuit of excellence....we was the one buying all the best players. If any club, find themselves languishing in the lower leagues, its because the results, have landed them there...its not ill fortune, its a defeatest attitude. This game is profoundly simple....you have to win games. The top teams are there for the self same reason.....Chelsea and Man City, knew what they hade to do to join Liverpool and Man U......sure money has been a huge and central factor, but never the less, they knew what they had to do and how ruthless they had to be. Winning comes from more that just a few nice passes and pretty play.....its much deeeper and all consuming than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 Well I'm pretty sure Ron Saunders would have agreed with me that Villa shouldn't be in the championship, sometimes to do well that's the kind of attitude you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 1 hour ago, VillaFaninLondon said: Pretty sure our wage bill is above wolves and not far off Everton and West Ham. Think it’s about 10th in the league which is about right with where I said this squad should be. Do you have a source for that because I'd be very surprised if that were true. Doing a quick Google search I can only find websites reporting last year and we were 14th in that table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 1 hour ago, foreveryoung said: I agree with this, we should really be close to catching a crap Everton team, Spurs and Arsenal at the moment. Does no one think, if we hadn't hit this horrible form we wouldn't be on par, if not above them. I'm not gonna mention Wolves, cause if anyone thinks they are better, or have a better squad, they must have very low expectations of us, or are definitely covering for Smith. Wolves finished 7th in back to back seasons and only really dropped last season because of the injury to Jimenez and no striker. Crazy to dismiss them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 Just now, DCJonah said: Wolves finished 7th in back to back seasons and only really dropped last season because of the injury to Jimenez and no striker. Crazy to dismiss them. They lost Jota too, never been the same. They are no better than us this season. Be very disappointing to finish below them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, TRO said: I think you make some sounds points, but in my opinion fail to see the other side of the debate. I was listening to that JLA presentation on us and yet again, he made some points....but one was, sadly that we bumped in to Spurs after a bad defeat to Arsenal, rendering us vulnerable to the back lash, which is fair comment, except when we go to Arsenal on the back of a bad defeat to Wolves, the same line, is ignored and our expected back lash waivered....funny that. We all know these things take time, but the burning question is how much time?.....when do you honestly think that line will be exhausted or reasonably questioned?......during the last 80 games( picked at random) i would have thought our wins to losses ratio, would have increased and it has, but so marginally, its hardly worth mentioning.....you see, I am interested to know how long the time/patience ponts is valid for...Its not a trick question, I genuinely don't know how long its a bonafide claim for. I actually admire you for your positive approach, but I think its marred by your reluctance to see an alternative view, like the one Trent, so eloquently mustered. Look, it goes without saying, we are all hoping you are right, by the way....but I fear, if you are not, we don't just drift in to another false sense of security......I am old enough to remember, and I have seen it all before....how many was behind Lambert when others said time up and that didn't end well, singing for him at Norwich,initially, I recall......different times, yes....we all hope. Just hoping Dean sorts it and my concerns are all rendered as unfounded. I think this demonstrates this serious lack of patience. 2 years back in the prem and already its a burning question. Why? What's going to happen? Why do we keep acting like football ends in the next few years. What if it takes 3 more years? What it takes 1? Or 5? What difference does it make? I'm not reluctant to see the other side. It's by no means some sort of guarantee that Smith will take us into that top 7 that we want. I'm not going to say it's a certainty. I think he's done everything asked of him so far and I'm willing to be patient with the journey. I'm not convinced of impending doom if it takes longer than some of us want. And I'm not going to diminish what he's done so far, in order to justify my future worries. If he doesn't do a good enough job, he'll be sacked. It's very simple. Edited October 26, 2021 by DCJonah 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 6 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Do you have a source for that because I'd be very surprised if that were true. Doing a quick Google search I can only find websites reporting last year and we were 14th in that table. The lower down the league you go, wage bills only represent you are paying players far too much, not that they have a better team. If Wolves are paying more than us, we obviously run our club better. We may have very high wage bill soon if Smith don't turn it around, cause that'll be the only way to attract half decent players! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: They lost Jota too, never been the same. They are no better than us this season. Be very disappointing to finish below them. There will always be something to disappoint you with villa. If it's not wolves, you'll pick another team. And then next season I'm sure there will be a different one that will cause this disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, TRO said: Well he made a point, even turning it to a joke, about being subbed, he was obviously miffed and it seemed entitled not to be subbed. of course its a storm in a tea cup.....but as they say " a stitch in time saves nine"....its rarely one incident, that creates a culture, but many incidents going unchecked can. not saying in this case anything was major. As has been said to me about Leadership, "A behaviour you fail to challenge, is a behaviour you accept as part of your culture". I find it to be true, i have seen it many times in my job, someone tries a behaviour on or acts in a certain way, then if that behaviour isnt challenged, it isnt long before others see its acceptable and start doing it also, and its much easier to slip in to these behaviours than we think also, its quite an intriguing discussion point with regard to culture and leadership. Edited October 26, 2021 by MaVilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 In almost every social media post from the club there are plenty of people calling for the manager's head. Things are definitely starting to turn and Deano need to pick up some wins soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 Just now, villalad21 said: In almost every social media post from the club there are plenty of people calling for the manager's head. Things are definitely starting to turn and Deano need to pick up some wins soon. The club won't react to social media. It's irrelevant. The fans at games are the ones to look at. We'll see if they change soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: The lower down the league you go, wage bills only represent you are paying players far too much, not that they have a better team. If Wolves are paying more than us, we obviously run our club better. We may have very high wage bill soon if Smith don't turn it around, cause that'll be the only way to attract half decent players! Good point. All those players on low wages playing for City, Chelsea and Liverpool because of all the other ways to attract decent players. Dam it. If only we could get the same. Oh well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 7 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: The lower down the league you go, wage bills only represent you are paying players far too much, not that they have a better team. If Wolves are paying more than us, we obviously run our club better. We may have very high wage bill soon if Smith don't turn it around, cause that'll be the only way to attract half decent players! https://www.spotrac.com/Premier League/payroll/ Quote Premier League Team Payroll Tracker Not sure how reliable it is but it has us 11th, ahead of Wolves and Toon and the others to be expected. Palace appear have a high wage bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 16 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: They lost Jota too, never been the same Agreed, he was a much bigger loss than Raul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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