TRO Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Why are yours alternative views but others are excuses? Interesting take. well yours can be an alternative view, if you want it to be....I did say some will say excuses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Absolutely. I think we have a chance. Especially if Bailey is fit from the start. If they put in as much effort and tenacity as me an you, we have a real chance 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 23 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Not at all. It's your posting history in this thread for the past few years. Even though you said on balance mid table would be a decent season, you still seem to find a team like Leeds, Brighton or Wolves that somehow cause you disappointment for us to be behind. Good rant. Bunch of pussies under Smith and then I'm not sure if you're serious with the last point. West Ham have finished above us the last two years, have a higher wage bill and have spent more years in the league whilst we were relegated. I think most neutrals and pundits would say West Ham are a better team. You can carry on barking at the moon if you want. But most fans can see the constant issues which are traits of Smith, bad runs, slow decisions, playing out of form favourites. Lets hope he turns it around, until the next time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted October 26, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 26, 2021 Just now, foreveryoung said: You can carry on barking at the moon if you want. But most fans can see the constant issues which are traits of Smith, bad runs, slow decisions, playing out of form favourites. Lets hope he turns it around, until the next time. I think everyone can see some of the negatives that Smith has. Show me a manager that doesn't have any negative traits. I think the difference is, most fans don't lose their shit or solely focus on those traits, when in general things are going pretty good at their club. Or don't have to pretend that the situation here is somehow unique. There will be a next time. I think you need to come to grips with that. The sooner you figure out what a midtable prem team looks like, the quicker you'll find more enjoyment from following your team. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, DCJonah said: What hasn't he done so far? Promoted straight away when most had given up on it. Record breaking win streak. Kept us up and cup final. Progressed to midtable. I see little point in picking a select number of games to try and prove something. Football is about whole seasons. It always has been. When we start falling behind where we should be then serious questions need to be asked. But so far he hasn't done that once since he arrived so for it to be a burning question right now is ridiculous IMO. Are you serious?.....you have just contradicted yourself....you mention the 10 game winning streak, great....but before that was 2 wins in 12 and since that, has been what?.....you tell me what our win v loss record is since that winning streak?and what type of sequence it represents? Look, of course there are plenty of good things Dean has done, else I wouldn't be joining you, in wanting to keep him....but we should be talking of HOW we improve our results record. but your defence mechanism, fails to point out any creedence to any alternative views.....I don't support wanting him gone, not yet anyway....a series of defeats with no clear answer in sight, I might change my mind. Edited October 27, 2021 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, DCJonah said: I think everyone can see some of the negatives that Smith has. Show me a manager that doesn't have any negative traits. I think the difference is, most fans don't lose their shit or solely focus on those traits, when in general things are going pretty good at their club. Or don't have to pretend that the situation here is somehow unique. There will be a next time. I think you need to come to grips with that. The sooner you figure out what a midtable prem team looks like, the quicker you'll find more enjoyment from following your team. Hallelujah....that took some squeezing I would hazard a guess....Ole is not that popular and SB was driven out, I would guess Wenger was too and look what he did, Legend or what. DC, I know you are not addressing this to me, and forgive me for interjecting......but when I sit down to watch a game.....you get no negative utterances from me, no matter how crap we are playing....just one focus, support the team and yes despite my tender years, I do sing, my bloody head off in support of the lads...what I say on here is a forum and I hope they don't read it.....but I am right behind them. I know what we are, but I still find some things unacceptable and I trust the manager does too...but he is a part of it, he and we have to accept that....when I was a working manager, I insisted any adverse was down to me and me to fix it....thats how you build team spirit, team harmony and a willingness for them to work hard for you....if they don't , then its enemy action....remember, coincidence, happenstance, enemy action....thats the order of incidents to work by....imo of course. Edited October 27, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 22 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: You can carry on barking at the moon if you want. But most fans can see the constant issues which are traits of Smith, bad runs, slow decisions, playing out of form favourites. Lets hope he turns it around, until the next time. Next time we lose, I am going in to Aston Park.....and do exactly that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 14 minutes ago, TRO said: Are you serious.....you have just contradicted yourself....you mention the 10 game winning streak, great....but before that was 2 wins in 12 and since that has been what.....you tell me what our win v loss record is since that winning streak?and what type of sequence it represents. Look, of course there are plenty of good things Dean has done, else I wouldn't be joining you, in wanting to keep him....but we should be talking of HOW we improve or results record. but your defence mechanism, fails to point out any creedence to any alternative views.....I don't support wanting him gone, not yet anyway....a series of defeats with no clear answer in site, I might change my mind. Do you remember the situation when he came in? The mess we were in. It wasn't his squad. Most had given up on the idea of going straight up and then he put together a club record streak to do it. Are you saying he didn't do what was asked of him that season? Because that was the point I made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, TRO said: Hallelujah....that took some squeezing I would hazard a guess....Ole is not that popular and SB was driven out, I would guess Wenger was too and look what he did, Legend or what. DC, I know you are not addressing this to me, and forgive me for interjecting......but when I sit down to watch a game.....you get no negative utterances from me, no matter how crap we are playing....just one focus, support the team and yes despite my tender years, I do sing, my bloody head off in support of the lads...what I say on here is a forum and I hope they don't read it.....but I am right behind them. I know what we are, but I still find some things unacceptable and I trust the manager does too...but he is a part of it, he and we have to accept that....when I was a working manager, I insisted any adverse was down to me and me to fix it....thats how you build team spirit, team harmony and a willingness for them to work hard for you....if they then don't its enemy action....remember, coincidence, happenstance, enemy action....thats the order of incidents to work by....imo of course. Not really. I've never claimed Smith doesn't make mistakes. I've never claimed he's some perfect manager. The difference is, as I just said, why focus on those when the clubs doing well? When he's doing what's asked of him? Because the reality is that all managers make mistakes, all managers have negative traits. If Martinez saves a pen and makes other world class saves in a game, why focus on the odd bad pass he makes? If Watkins scores a brace, why focus on the odd bad touch. So far, Dean Smith has done everything asked of him and more. Until that changes, I see no reason to continuely criticise the man, or hold him to unrealistic expectations. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 19 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I think everyone can see some of the negatives that Smith has. Show me a manager that doesn't have any negative traits. I think the difference is, most fans don't lose their shit or solely focus on those traits, when in general things are going pretty good at their club. Or don't have to pretend that the situation here is somehow unique. There will be a next time. I think you need to come to grips with that. The sooner you figure out what a midtable prem team looks like, the quicker you'll find more enjoyment from following your team. No, thankyou, this is bull**** Maybe we are a midtable team, cause we have a midtable manager. Although as I have said before, you need to accept some fans have higher expectations than you, an there is no problem with that, no problem at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) I don't see challenging for Europe as unrealistic expectations. Challenging doesn't mean you expect European Football. It just means to be in the mix with the likes of Everton and West Ham. I feel we have a good enough squad to be able to challenge. Up to the manager to get the most out of his players. Edited October 26, 2021 by villalad21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 26, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2021 For fun while I wait for the U21's to kick off - here's the Premier League managers ranked by how I think they're doing so far this season vs the expectations of their clubs: Moyes Potter Klopp Tuchel Guardiola Frank Lage Nuno Santo Benitez Arteta Smith Solskjaer Rogers Vieira Dyche Hasenhüttl Ranieri Newcastle* Farke Bielsa *Coaching team, kit man whoever. Another table we can be mid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, DCJonah said: Do you remember the situation when he came in? The mess we were in. It wasn't his squad. Most had given up on the idea of going straight up and then he put together a club record streak to do it. Are you saying he didn't do what was asked of him that season? Because that was the point I made. I did remember the situation....I also remembered losing at Wembely by the odd goal with a decent side that Dean went on to endorse during the season.....Thank god we did lose or the consequences would be unthinkable. The winning streak was instrumental in us gaining promotion and the record cannot be overlooked, but it did proceed a poor record of 2 wins in 12.....and since then we have had a bit of a win ,one lose one sequence, despite that manifesting itself to 55 points last season which was very encouraging. I think what we are all trying to get our heads around is why, we are still not being able to secure back to back wins....the 4 last season was the closest we have come to the 10, with the Leeds debacle bringing us back down to Earth. I think in terms of League table, he did do what was asked of him, however Purslow intimated, with such early progress, he was a degree disappointed how easily we slipped back....I can tell him why and I can tell you why, we are midtable, despite some great results and Man U away is pukka....(I couldn't care less about their form, who mentions it when we lose?) The answer why we are playing like we do and get results like we do....is because: ....................We are too easy to play against in too many games. Edited October 27, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 10 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: No, thankyou, this is bull**** Maybe we are a midtable team, cause we have a midtable manager. Although as I have said before, you need to accept some fans have higher expectations than you, an there is no problem with that, no problem at all. I can accept it and still think they're unrealistic. Didn't you say that a balanced expectation would be midtable at the start of the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, DCJonah said: Not really. I've never claimed Smith doesn't make mistakes. I've never claimed he's some perfect manager. The difference is, as I just said, why focus on those when the clubs doing well? When he's doing what's asked of him? Because the reality is that all managers make mistakes, all managers have negative traits. If Martinez saves a pen and makes other world class saves in a game, why focus on the odd bad pass he makes? If Watkins scores a brace, why focus on the odd bad touch. So far, Dean Smith has done everything asked of him and more. Until that changes, I see no reason to continuely criticise the man, or hold him to unrealistic expectations. Euphemisms creeping in again. He will, when he works with Cuts. I am not criticising him, just asking pertinent questions. To seek improvement is 26 wins in 80 league games, unrealistic? The owners will be the ones to judge, whether he has done everything that has been asked of him. Edited October 27, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 1 minute ago, TRO said: Euphemisms creeping in again. He will, when he works with Cuts. I am not criticising him, just asking pertinent questions. To seek improvement is 26 wins in 80 league games, unrealistic? The owners will be the ones to judge, whether he has done everything that has been asked of him. Agreed. And the fact he's been here this long suggests he has. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 10 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: For fun while I wait for the U21's to kick off - here's the Premier League managers ranked by how I think they're doing so far this season vs the expectations of their clubs: Moyes Potter Klopp Tuchel Guardiola Frank Lage Nuno Santo Benitez Arteta Smith Solskjaer Rogers Vieira Dyche Hasenhüttl Ranieri Newcastle* Farke Bielsa *Coaching team, kit man whoever. Another table we can be mid of. Pretty fair, can't argue with that.....but if any of those teams below, improve and we stay as we are ,we are impacted....However conversely, if we start turning defeats in to wins, it doesn't matter, what they do. The hard questions will always be, what are we doing, not everyone else......I say again, look at our sequence of results ( as short or as far back as you like) and tell me what you see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 6 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Agreed. And the fact he's been here this long suggests he has. so far, so good....have to agree on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 9 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I can accept it and still think they're unrealistic. Didn't you say that a balanced expectation would be midtable at the start of the season? Admitted I did, but after beating Everton and Man U, I thought he may carry on from where we left off and increased my expectations, which I am entitled to do. Beating man U was a game changer, although I thought, then in typical Smith style he brings us back down to earth with 3 straight defeats after 2 great wins standard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 Just now, TRO said: Pretty fair, can't argue with that.....but if any of those teams below, improve and we stay as we are ,we are impacted....However conversely, if we start turning defeats in to wins, it doesn't matter, what they do. The hard questions will always be, what are we doing, not everyone else......I say again, look at our sequence of results ( as short or as far back as you like) and tell me what you see? I see a midtable team with ups and downs. A team that with 55 pts would usually have easily finished top half. I see a team trying to change the way they've played and are waiting for their big money summer signings to get up to speed or actually be able to play a game. I see a team that gives the ball away top easily and still makes too many defensive errors at the back. Overall I see a club on the up and with or without Dean, a club with solid foundations to continue to build upon. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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