Dean Smith

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

https://www.spotrac.com/Premier League/payroll/

Not sure how reliable it is but it has us 11th, ahead of Wolves and Toon and the others to be expected. Palace appear have a high wage bill

Interesting. I'd expect wolves to be higher. But look at the difference between our wages and some of the teams some on here think we should be taking over after 2 years back in the league. 

I think that table helps prove the ridiculous overreaction on here at times. Let's see where we are at the end in relation to that. 

[blandy]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

except when we go to Arsenal on the back of a bad defeat to Wolves, the same line, is ignored and our expected back lash waivered....funny that.

You can argue all kinds, though. You could argue that we really pissed off Arsenal fans and club with all the bids for ESR, that they were well aware they "owed us" for 3 defeats in a row, that they were bang on form and at home, and we were shell shocked from letting in 3 and losing in 10 minutes and a bit down on belief.... It's to an extent whichever excuses we  want. But the truth is in the PL especially every side can beat every other on any day - and so managers and teams need to be high performing all the time. Dean arguably got the selections wrong and was too slow to change it in that game. But that happens to absolutely everyone at some point in the season. The key is to make those occasions a rarity. As others have said his record is kind of littered with spells of good form and results, and then spells where it all looks a bit rubbish. He's operating at a higher level of competition and expectation now. Him and the coaches and players need to step up.

[TRO]

55 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I think this demonstrates this serious lack of patience. 2 years back in the prem and already its a burning question. Why? What's going to happen? Why do we keep acting like football ends in the next few years. What if it takes 3 more years? What it takes 1? Or 5? What difference does it make?

I'm not reluctant to see the other side. It's by no means some sort of guarantee that Smith will take us into that top 7 that we want. I'm not going to say it's a certainty. 

I think he's done everything asked of him so far and I'm willing to be patient with the journey. I'm not convinced of impending doom if it takes longer than some of us want. 

And I'm not going to dimish what he's done so far, in order to justify my future worries. 

If he doesn't do a good enough job, he'll be sacked. It's very simple. 

but it simply can't be open ended as you suggest....budgets have to be set, jobs have to be created to cater for corporate services....better players have to be bought with higher wages, of course we can't just be patient, like waiting for crops to grow, we could all be dead before the harvest.....businesses don't work like that and sadly at times, Aston Villa is a business.

but you keep clinging to "time" as some sort of intervening force....its not a given, anymore than my concerns are .....but there has to be a time limit, time is just an abstract, its what we do with that time and 26 wins in 80 games is suggesting, it could be a long wait.

We all want him to turn this around and come out fighting and get this next win....but clinging to "time" or hope, is not a very good prop to be going in to a boardroom with.

We lose the next 2/3 games....and you tell Wes edens ( hypothetically)to be patient and see the response.

DC Your positivity is to be applauded ( and I mean that genuinely) but we need a bit of realism to go with it.

Edited October 26, 2021 by TRO

[MaVilla]

Just checking some stats re length of time in post, interesting that Deano is our longest serving manager since MON, and our third longest serving manager since 1998, behind Gregory & MON (13 managers in those 23 years).

• Deano - 3 years - 134 games.
• MON - 4 years - 190 games.
• Gregory - 4 years -190 games.

 

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

Dean arguably got the selections wrong and was too slow to change it in that game.

The concern is that it is not just that game though. We are 9 games into the season and still flogging the same dead horse. Yes, 5 at the back is the right choice for some games but not for all of them.

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

but it simply can't be open ended as you suggest....budgets have to be set, jobs have to be created to cater for corporate services....better players have to be bought with higher wages, of course we can't just be patient, like waiting for crops to grow, we could all be dead before the harvest.....businesses don't work like that and sadly at times, Aston Villa is a business.

but you keep clinging to "time" as some sort of intervening force....its not a given, anymore than my concerns are just confined to me.....but there has to be a time limit, time is just an abstract, ite what we do with that time and 26 wins in 80 games is suggesting, it could be a long wait.

We all want him to turn this around and come out fighting and get this next win....but clinging to "time" or hope, is not a very good prop to going in to a boardroom with.

We lose the next 2/3 games....and you tell Wes edens ( hypothetically)to be patient and see the response.

DC Your positivity is to be applauded ( and I mean that geneuinely) but we need a bit of realism to go with it.

We can't be patient? Why? What's going to happen? No one ever tells me what this impending doom is. 

Look at that table of wages above. Arsenal double ours. Everton spend £25 million more on wages than we do. 

And We're meant to jump above these teams because we've been back in the league for 2 years? 

Patience, doesn't mean Smith gets a free pass for the next 5 years. Like I said, he will go if he doesn't do enough. 

You mention realism at the end. I think I am. I think it's very realistic to expect us to be a midtable team at this point in our journey. I think it's very realistic to expect ups and downs throughout a season. I think its realistic to expect it to take some time to click when key players like Buendia and Bailey aren't contributing like we know they can. 

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

Just checking some stats re length of time in post, interesting that Deano is our longest serving manager since MON, and our third longest serving manager since 1998, behind Gregory & MON (13 managers in those 23 years).

• Deano - 3 years - 134 games.
• MON - 4 years - 190 games.
• Gregory - 4 years -190 games.

 

He would get a statue at Watford if he lasted 134 games there 

[blandy]

1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said:

5 at the back is the right choice for some games but not for all of them.

I agree. We've used it for what? 4 league games or something, in part due to injuries. But that's for the selection tactics thread, not this one.

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

There will always be something to disappoint you with villa. If it's not wolves, you'll pick another team. And then next season I'm sure there will be a different one that will cause this disappointment. 

Again you have jumped on a poster, because it doesn't suit your narrative. 

I CAN TELL YOU WHAT DISAPPOINTS ME, an most people will agree, apart from you probably!

It's playing crap, yet again under Smith after looking good and beating Everton and Man U. Then starting our (becoming standard every season) poor run, losing to Wolves in the last 10 minutes, losing to a poor Tottenham team because we took no notice of Son running the show, losing to Arsenal because Smith was to slow to change a system even my 6 year old could see was not working, an likely will lose to West ham because we are a bunch of pussies under Smith and as you say anyway, their team is far better than ours as they have been in the Premier League longer!!

 

[TRO]

19 hours ago, MaVilla said:

As has been said to me about Leadership, "A behaviour you fail to challenge, is a behaviour you accept as part of your culture".

I find it to be true, i have seen it many times in my job, someone tries a behaviour on or acts in a certain way, then if that behaviour isnt challenged, it isnt long before others see its acceptable and start doing it also, and its much easier to slip in to these behaviours than we think also, its quite an intriguing discussion point with regard to culture and leadership.

MV I ran pubs in some of the roughest area's in Brum.....if you don't take zero tolerance, you are in trouble, you can always ease back from that, when you have control.......because give an inch and they take a yard....Its not a case of being a hard case, because that will land you in trouble too.....but you have to be strong mentally and decisive and you can't shy away from unsavoury situations, you have to meet them head on.

Millionaire footballers must be very hard to handle....but handle you must and turning a blind eye, is not a method, I would recommend.....I am not saying Dean is , by the way, because I am not privvy to BMH.

you probably hear me talk about control in a game......its crucial....sure it happens, to score a couple and let control slip at times, but still get the win, but to progress, progress properly, you have to seize control more often than not.

Edited October 27, 2021 by TRO

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Again you have jumped on a poster, because it doesn't suit your narrative. 

I CAN TELL YOU WHAT DISAPPOINTS ME, an most people will agree, apart from you probably!

It's playing crap, yet again under Smith after looking good and beating Everton and Man U. Then starting our (becoming standard every season) poor run, losing to Wolves in the last 10 minutes, losing to a poor Tottenham team because we took no notice of Son running the show, losing to Arsenal because Smith was to slow to change a system even my 6 year old could see was not working, an likely will lose to West ham because we are a bunch of pussies under Smith and as you say anyway, their team is far better than ours as they have been in the Premier League longer!!

 

Not at all. It's your posting history in this thread for the past few years. Even though you said on balance mid table would be a decent season, you still seem to find a team like Leeds, Brighton or Wolves that somehow cause you disappointment for us to be behind. 

Good rant. Bunch of pussies under Smith and then I'm not sure if you're serious with the last point. West Ham have finished above us the last two years, have a higher wage bill and have spent more years in the league whilst we were relegated. I think most neutrals and pundits would say West Ham are a better team. 

[TRO]

41 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

We can't be patient? Why? What's going to happen? No one ever tells me what this impending doom is. 

Look at that table of wages above. Arsenal double ours. Everton spend £25 million more on wages than we do. 

And We're meant to jump above these teams because we've been back in the league for 2 years? 

Patience, doesn't mean Smith gets a free pass for the next 5 years. Like I said, he will go if he doesn't do enough. 

You mention realism at the end. I think I am. I think it's very realistic to expect us to be a midtable team at this point in our journey. I think it's very realistic to expect ups and downs throughout a season. I think its realistic to expect it to take some time to click when key players like Buendia and Bailey aren't contributing like we know they can. 

Possible change that we don't want.......too many defeats and frightening performances, like first half at Watford and Arsenal and the collapse against Wolves...thats doom and we don't want any more of it.

but thats what it implies to me...

but I ask you again how long does it take, before patience is a red herring?.....We all know things take time, it would be stupid to think otherwise, but how long before those tangible things become myth.

who's talking about jumping ahead of these big teams....I'm talking about 26 wins in the last 80 games or 13 wins in the last 40 games, carve it up to suit....when does that get better?

as soon a it does, I will announce it....with Joy and Jubilation.

Edited October 26, 2021 by TRO

[MaVilla]

Just now, TRO said:

but thats what it implies to me...

but I ask you again how long does it take, before patience is a red herring.....We all know things take time, it would be stupid to think otherwise, but how long before those tangible things become myth.

who's talking about jumping ahead of these big teams....I'm talking about 26 wins in the last 80 games or 13 wins in the last 40 games, carve it up to suit....when does that get better?

as soon a it does, I will announce it....

42.

[Indigo]

Can't believe you aren't allowed to call a team a "bunch of pussies" without being disagreed with. Jesus.

[DCJonah]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

but thats what it implies to me...

but I ask you again how long does it take, before patience is a red herring.....We all know things take time, it would be stupid to think otherwise, but how long before those tangible things become myth.

who's talking about jumping ahead of these big teams....I'm talking about 26 wins in the last 80 games or 13 wins in the last 40 games, carve it up to suit....when does that get better?

as soon a it does, I will announce it....

What hasn't he done so far? 

Promoted straight away when most had given up on it. Record breaking win streak. 

Kept us up and cup final. 

Progressed to midtable. 

I see little point in picking a select number of games to try and prove something. Football is about whole seasons. It always has been. 

When we start falling behind where we should be then serious questions need to be asked. But so far he hasn't done that once since he arrived so for it to be a burning question right now is ridiculous IMO. 

[TRO]

25 minutes ago, blandy said:

You can argue all kinds, though. You could argue that we really pissed off Arsenal fans and club with all the bids for ESR, that they were well aware they "owed us" for 3 defeats in a row, that they were bang on form and at home, and we were shell shocked from letting in 3 and losing in 10 minutes and a bit down on belief.... It's to an extent whichever excuses we  want. But the truth is in the PL especially every side can beat every other on any day - and so managers and teams need to be high performing all the time. Dean arguably got the selections wrong and was too slow to change it in that game. But that happens to absolutely everyone at some point in the season. The key is to make those occasions a rarity. As others have said his record is kind of littered with spells of good form and results, and then spells where it all looks a bit rubbish. He's operating at a higher level of competition and expectation now. Him and the coaches and players need to step up.

but thats what we are doing....when folk put forward mitigating circumstances or some would say excuses.....others put forward alternative views, hopefully worthy of consideration.

I think Trent, did exactly that the other day, and it was worthy of note.

Can't argue with the post overall Pete, I agree.

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

but thats what we are doing....when folk put forward mitigating circumstances or some would say excuses.....others put forward alternative views, hopefully worthy of consideration.

I think Trent, did exactly that the other day, and it was worthy of note.

Can't argue with the post overall Pete, I agree.

Why are yours alternative views but others are excuses? Interesting take. 

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Not at all. It's your posting history in this thread for the past few years. Even though you said on balance mid table would be a decent season, you still seem to find a team like Leeds, Brighton or Wolves that somehow cause you disappointment for us to be behind. 

Good rant. Bunch of pussies under Smith and then I'm not sure if you're serious with the last point. West Ham have finished above us the last two years, have a higher wage bill and have spent more years in the league whilst we were relegated. I think most neutrals and pundits would say West Ham are a better team. 

They are a better Team, because they have developed a better team....but with the right approach better teams can be beat....Everton and Man U is a case in point.

We will see on Sunday, what Villa team turns up.

[DCJonah]

Just now, TRO said:

They are a better Team, because they have developed a better team....but with the right approach better teams can be beat....Everton and Man U is a case in point.

We will see on Sunday, what Villa team turns up.

Absolutely. I think we have a chance. Especially if Bailey is fit from the start.

[foreveryoung]

7 minutes ago, Indigo said:

Can't believe you aren't allowed to call a team a "bunch of pussies" without being disagreed with. Jesus.

No need to really say it, just watch us against West ham Sunday, although I hope I'm wrong!