Dean Smith

[useless]

I think we'll beat Southampton and that will keep Smith in a job during the international break, it will then become a question of how well we do against Palace and Brighton. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that we take a good haulf of points from the next three and the mood becomes completely different. Winning the Southampton game is though.

[Vive_La_Villa]

18 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

It's a tough spot we're in. I agree a change feels close, and will be even closer with a loss at Southampton.

Almost every player at the club has been signed by Smith. It could be Fonseca, Potter, Ten Hag or Nuno and I think a bad start is very possible.

At the start of an international break would be as good a time as any to make a change.

I wonder what managers say to players when under pressure and next game could be the sack. Is it a case of ‘if you lose this I’m going to get the sack you words removed’.

Then I wonder how much the players have that in their minds when out on the field.  Do they leave everything out their for the gaffer or do they think **** this I’ve had enough of him.  

A lot of these players must be very close to Smith.

Or is it all just irrelevant and the players give their all regardless  

[Phil Silvers]

3 minutes ago, useless said:

I think we'll beat Southampton and that will keep Smith in a job during the international break, it will then become a question of how well we do against Palace and Brighton. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that we take a good haulf of points from the next three and the mood becomes completely different. Winning the Southampton game is though.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

There's a mass over reaction because it's 4 in a row, to me it's 2 crap performances and results back to back, nothing between us and spurs, OG from Targs decided that, complete collapse but even then freaky goals for 10 mins Vs wolves, Arsenal and spam bang in form and getting everything go their way at the moment. Were a realistic 6 points behind where we should be and in the back of 2 poor performances, that's it. That's not even taking in to account what's going on with pgmol/var, there's an agenda against Villa, I'm convinced of it. The refereeing couldn't have been any worse for us recently.

I'm convinced the last few performances and results are due to changes made in training to try counter our injury issues and that enough players are struggling with any changes to significantly alter our effectiveness.

[IrishVilla10]

5 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

There's a mass over reaction because it's 4 in a row, to me it's 2 crap performances and results back to back, nothing between us and spurs, OG from Targs decided that, complete collapse but even then freaky goals for 10 mins Vs wolves, Arsenal and spam bang in form and getting everything go their way at the moment. Were a realistic 6 points behind where we should be and in the back of 2 poor performances, that's it. That's not even taking in to account what's going on with pgmol/var, there's an agenda against Villa, I'm convinced of it. The refereeing couldn't have been any worse for us recently.

I'm convinced the last few performances and results are due to changes made in training to try counter our injury issues and that enough players are struggling with any changes to significantly alter our effectiveness.

Your first point about this all stemming due to it being 4 in a row and 2 crap performances is wild. We’ve been poor for the majority of 2021, there’s enough statistics to prove that. Spurs had the better of us the whole game. We looked poor in the formation against wolves and I was in disbelief that we put it out again. I watched son have the whole left side of their pitch to himself for the majority of the game until he eventually punished us. Targett own goal but Lucas is putting it in the net regardless. The wolves result was embarrassing. To then continue with the formation into the game against an inform arsenal was either naive or stubborn from smith. It was clear within 10 minutes we were going to lose and we continued with it until the second half. Yes he changed it second half and we saw the difference, but he then tries to say it wasn’t down to the system in his post match interview, of course it was. It’s too easy to say we’re 6 points behind where we should be but that isn’t how it works, we’re where we are because of how we’re performing on the pitch. When you can’t keep the ball, can’t create chances for your two strikers, get overpowered in the middle and overrun in defence there’s no point even looking towards the refs or VAR for excuses. 

[chrisvilla4]

Can the leaky roof chat be moved to the Hause thread? 

[Phil Silvers]

2 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Your first point about this all stemming due to it being 4 in a row and 2 crap performances is wild. We’ve been poor for the majority of 2021, there’s enough statistics to prove that. Spurs had the better of us the whole game. We looked poor in the formation against wolves and I was in disbelief that we put it out again. I watched son have the whole left side of their pitch to himself for the majority of the game until he eventually punished us. Targett own goal but Lucas is putting it in the net regardless. The wolves result was embarrassing. To then continue with the formation into the game against an inform arsenal was either naive or stubborn from smith. It was clear within 10 minutes we were going to lose and we continued with it until the second half. Yes he changed it second half and we saw the difference, but he then tries to say it wasn’t down to the system in his post match interview, of course it was. It’s too easy to say we’re 6 points behind where we should be but that isn’t how it works, we’re where we are because of how we’re performing on the pitch. When you can’t keep the ball, can’t create chances for your two strikers, get overpowered in the middle and overrun in defence there’s no point even looking towards the refs or VAR for excuses. 

Fair comments, the stats do add up but do not tell the full story. I'm not writing him until he has all his players fully fit and up to speed with what we expect of them. I've re-read my post and it is bias towards Smith, I can see that, I'm desperate for it to work for him and us fans. 

2021 has been one upheaval after another, things we cannot just ignore, that would make us anti-Smith bias. I do not see any potential and getable Manager doing considerably better to make it worthwhile changing yet. If we do not turn it around then fine but right now is too soon for me, I just cannot see who comes in and transforms us successly as a guaranteed proposal. The only managers that give that will not come here 

[tonyh29]

had Smith got his dream of  Grealish - Smith Rowe - Buendia  behind Watkins maybe things would have been a lot different  , football doesn't work on dreams though 

 

Martinez , Targett and Mings have all suffered major dips in their form this season .. and we are haemorrhaging  soft goals 

Watkins doesn't look like he could trap a bag off dust at the moment , McGinn seems to believe the hype that he's better than he really is and Luiz seems to have lost some of his swagger 

 El Ghazi sulks when he isn't playing so is zero use as an impact sub , Traore has barely kicked a ball , ditto Bailey ...

Buendía  , well I've no idea what has happened there but at the moment we seem to have overpaid by about £35 m 

we lost 2 of our coaches this season  ,including one that seemed to work primarily with the defence in Terry .... I don't know if that's the bigger impact than losing Grealish , but assuming Citeh didn't insert a buy out clause and we can't buy him back in Jan , then something needs to be done at the coaching level and quick .. A defeat on Friday and Smith has to go  , I can't believe Newcastle wont pull out the bottom 3 and Burnley always kick their way out of trouble  ..that doesn't leave us a lot of breathing space 

 

 

 

[IrishVilla10]

14 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

Fair comments, the stats do add up but do not tell the full story. I'm not writing him until he has all his players fully fit and up to speed with what we expect of them. I've re-read my post and it is bias towards Smith, I can see that, I'm desperate for it to work for him and us fans. 

2021 has been one upheaval after another, things we cannot just ignore, that would make us anti-Smith bias. I do not see any potential and getable Manager doing considerably better to make it worthwhile changing yet. If we do not turn it around then fine but right now is too soon for me, I just cannot see who comes in and transforms us successly as a guaranteed proposal. The only managers that give that will not come here 

This was my view up until maybe Arsenal, we had a terrible pre season, then Covid then international issues. And even when discussing amongst friends that has been my argument as to why we’re not doing well, injuries etc. But the thing for me now is we’re 10 games in and still have no identity, regardless of players being out when I watch us play we have no style or I can’t see what we’re actually trying to do in games. That can’t be due to injuries, Leon Bailey coming back or Bertrand traore coming back are not going to change that. We’re 19th in the league for pressures, 19th for shot creating actions, 20th for tackles and 19th for key passes, those stats tell the full story. 

I completely agree I have no idea who’s going to replace smith, given our run of fixtures now until mid December Ill be surprised if we’ve move any positions up the table. I’m aware of everything he’s achieved and done for us here but it’s going to take a lot to convince me he’s not reached his limit with us. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by IrishVilla10

[Phil Silvers]

25 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

This was my view up until maybe Arsenal, we had a terrible pre season, then Covid then international issues. And even when discussing amongst friends that has been my argument as to why we’re not doing well, injuries etc. But the thing for me now is we’re 10 games in and still have no identity, regardless of players being out when I watch us play we have no style or I can’t see what we’re actually trying to do in games. That can’t be due to injuries, Leon Bailey coming back or Bertrand traore coming back are not going to change that. We’re 19th in the league for pressures, 19th for shot creating actions, 20th for tackles and 19th for shot creating actions, those stats tell the full story. 

I completely agree I have no idea who’s going to replace smith, given our run of fixtures now until mid December Ill be surprised if we’ve move any positions up the table. I’m aware of everything he’s achieved and done for us here but it’s going to take a lot to convince me he’s not reached his limit with us. 

I get all of it but I'm slightly blinded towards Dean I guess. 

My 2 big gripes with Dean are what we do off the ball, it's been like it for most of his tenure, even the good spells, it infuriates me that he either ignores it or cannot fix it. Next is, at champs level or below you can chop and change personnel without to much impact but it might just click and give a team that wanted upturn in form, at this level it doesn't work, we need familiarity, consistency etc, changing too much too quick, a Deano trait, gets exposed easily especially by teams that are better than us.

The keeper, back4, McGinn, Luis and Watkins should be runners always until they get kept out by better, that core familiarity was about mid table, replacing Jack with Leon - fine (injured), upgrading the other side to Emi2 -fine (isn't happening for him), the 3rd man in MF was the key and JJ has stepped up and been good enough for us (now injured) to be as good as 20/21, midtable, everything clicks into place we improve on midtable. 

It's the manager, the players the circumstances, whether people want to take them into account or not, it all adds up to what we are seeing. If Dean doesn't have all the added crap we move sideways or up, I'm convinced of it. If he improves as a manager and fixes my 3 main gripes above, I think we improve enough to give 6,7,8th a run for their money.

I do not see anyone getable coming in and doing any better taking everything into account.

Don't get me wrong, I fume at the manager as much as you, after 15 at Arsenal he did nothing and nothing was wrong.

I dunno Irish, it's such a difficult spot and after us progressing so well it's so annoying to be stalling and regressing. Who'd be a Villa fan hey.

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Phil Silvers

[HKP90]

5 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

I get all of it but I'm slightly blinded towards Dean I guess. 

My 2 big gripes with Dean are what we do off the ball, it's been like it for most of his tenure, even the good spells, it infuriates me that he either ignores it or cannot fix it. Next is, at champs level or below you can chop and change personnel without to much impact but it might just click and give a team that wanted upturn in form, at this level it doesn't work, we need familiarity, consistency etc, changing too much too quick, a Deano trait, gets exposed easily especially by teams that are better than us.

The keeper, back4, McGinn, Luis and Watkins should be runners always until they get kept out by better, that core familiarity was about mid table, replacing Jack with Leon - fine (injured), upgrading the other side to Emi2 -fine (isn't happening for him), the 3rd man in MF was the key and JJ has stepped up and been good enough for us (now injured) to be as good as 20/21, midtable, everything clicks into place we improve on midtable. 

It's the manager, the players the circumstances, whether people want to take them into account or not, it all adds up to what we are seeing. If Dean doesn't have all the added crap we move sideways or up, I'm convinced of it. If he improves as a manager and fixes my 3 main gripes above, I think we improve enough to give 6,7,8th a run for their money.

I do not see anyone getable coming in and doing any better taking everything into account.

Don't get me wrong, I fume at the manager as much as you, after 15 at Arsenal he did nothing and nothing was wrong.

I dunno Irish, it's such a difficult spot and after us progressing so well it's so annoying to be stalling and regressing. Who'd be a Villa fan hey.

 

Can't argue with most of this. I would say that many of the deviations from a core team have to some degree this season been forced, but I completely agree with your conclusions.

[pacbuddies]

45 minutes ago, chrisvilla4 said:

Can the leaky roof chat be moved to the Hause thread? 

Good idea. Can anyone spare me any Cash to fix it?

[HKP90]

3 minutes ago, pacbuddies said:

Good idea. Can anyone spare me any Cash to fix it?

Polish builder. Good work ethic.

Edited November 2, 2021 by HKP90

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, Phil Silvers said:

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

There's a mass over reaction because it's 4 in a row, to me it's 2 crap performances and results back to back, nothing between us and spurs, OG from Targs decided that, complete collapse but even then freaky goals for 10 mins Vs wolves, Arsenal and spam bang in form and getting everything go their way at the moment. Were a realistic 6 points behind where we should be and in the back of 2 poor performances, that's it. That's not even taking in to account what's going on with pgmol/var, there's an agenda against Villa, I'm convinced of it. The refereeing couldn't have been any worse for us recently.

I'm convinced the last few performances and results are due to changes made in training to try counter our injury issues and that enough players are struggling with any changes to significantly alter our effectiveness.

You may have called it right. I do hope so, but the way things are looking atm, it really isn't healthy. 

What irks me, is the fact that Deano, after three years at the helm, is still no nearer to having us play in the way his Brentford side did. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by sheepyvillian

[Phil Silvers]

6 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

Can't argue with most of this. I would say that many of the deviations from a core team have to some degree this season been forced, but I completely agree with your conclusions.

Forced deviations, injuries etc, losing our best player, it all adds up to why we are here and now I guess.

I do wonder though if the backroom personnel changes are having an impact, ROK was possibly limited and maybe old fashioned in his approach but was he the key to the togetherness we have, maybe. Maybe Danks and the serial killer are all business, no banter types that are drilling another new beginning into the players that is knocking some off their game initially, this happens but if the coaching IS good enough it works eventually.

Sometimes it is a case of 2 steps back to move forward, hope it's the case here.

[IrishVilla10]

16 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

I get all of it but I'm slightly blinded towards Dean I guess. 

My 2 big gripes with Dean are what we do off the ball, it's been like it for most of his tenure, even the good spells, it infuriates me that he either ignores it or cannot fix it. Next is, at champs level or below you can chop and change personnel without to much impact but it might just click and give a team that wanted upturn in form, at this level it doesn't work, we need familiarity, consistency etc, changing too much too quick, a Deano trait, gets exposed easily especially by teams that are better than us.

The keeper, back4, McGinn, Luis and Watkins should be runners always until they get kept out by better, that core familiarity was about mid table, replacing Jack with Leon - fine (injured), upgrading the other side to Emi2 -fine (isn't happening for him), the 3rd man in MF was the key and JJ has stepped up and been good enough for us (now injured) to be as good as 20/22, midtable, everything clicks into place we improve on midtable. 

It's the manager, the players the circumstances, whether people want to take them into account or not, it all adds up to what we are seeing. If Dean doesn't have all the added crap we move sideways or up, I'm convinced of it. If he improves as a manager and fixes my 3 main gripes above, I think we improve enough to give 6,7,8th a run for their money.

I do not see anyone getable coming in and doing any better taking everything into account.

Don't get me wrong, I fume at the manager as much as you, after 15 at Arsenal he did nothing and nothing was wrong.

I dunno Irish, it's such a difficult spot and after us progressing so well it's so annoying to be stalling and regressing. Who'd be a Villa fan hey.

 

I agree with you. In theory with our transfers we do have enough to do other maintain or improve on last years position, but from what we’re seeing on the pitch for one reason or another we look miles off it. We set up in what I thought was our best formation against West Ham and except Mings being left out and nakamba stepping in for Luiz probably our strongest line up. But the players are not performing or being coached well enough imo. We’re still playing lump ball. Given time we may well click and improve but everything’s pointing towards us going backwards atm and has been for a while now. I agree with your gripes but I don’t know if things are going to change. 

[jacketspuds]

It's pretty annoying that some members of the media, and ex-footballers, are praising Spurs for bringing in Conte. They are also explaining away why Nuno was sacked so soon after taking the job, as if it's not really a big deal. If we were to replace Smith I'm sure we would be questioned and criticised for not giving him a fair chance this season.

[M_Afro]

We may well beat Southampton on Friday but it won’t change anything. Our poor form will continue as it has whenever we haven’t had Grealish to get us out of trouble. The greatest barometer for the near future is the recent past. Anybody who thinks otherwise is just clutching at straws.

I understand why people are so desperate for Dean to be successful. We would all love that. However, I remember watching an animal programme once and the Vet said that his greatest skill was not knowing how to save an animal but understanding the point at which it was better for the animal to let them go. I genuinely believe that it’s better for Dean to go now. His reputation is still relatively in tact and his legacy with the fans is safe. Let it rumble too long and it jeopardises his and our futures. 

[Phil Silvers]

10 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

It's pretty annoying that some members of the media, and ex-footballers, are praising Spurs for bringing in Conte. They are also explaining away why Nuno was sacked so soon after taking the job, as if it's not really a big deal. If we were to replace Smith I'm sure we would be questioned and criticised for not giving him a fair chance this season.

100%

Scum6skyscumPgmolscum are all anti Villa, convinced of it.

[Phil Silvers]

6 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

We may well beat Southampton on Friday but it won’t change anything. Our poor form will continue as it has whenever we haven’t had Grealish to get us out of trouble. The greatest barometer for the near future is the recent past. Anybody who thinks otherwise is just clutching at straws.

I understand why people are so desperate for Dean to be successful. We would all love that. However, I remember watching an animal programme once and the Vet said that his greatest skill was not knowing how to save an animal but understanding the point at which it was better for the animal to let them go. I genuinely believe that it’s better for Dean to go now. His reputation is still relatively in tact and his legacy with the fans is safe. Let it rumble too long and it jeopardises his and our futures. 

Respect all of that Afro but I hope it's not the case and we flip it around and finish 5th

[VillaJay]

Big game on Friday for Dean and the club, a defeat or even a draw could see him replaced. He's done a brilliant job so far, up there with Little and Gregory in terms of enjoyment for me. I really hope we turn it around and push on under Dean as there's no other manager I'd want us to succeed under right now, however I can see the other side of the argument and there are some red flags and concerns that his tenure has hit it's ceiling.

Bielsa has had a shocker of a start this season (Different resources granted) but he's a top coach who I expect to turn it around due to his teams clear identity. The fear with this villa team right now is there has been a lack of identity throughout his tenure and doesn't look like improving anytime soon.

Potter for me would be the ideal replacement if Dean can't turn it around quickly. He's not achieved a lot in terms of pl positions, but he's a young coach with a clear identity to his football and his Brighton team are miles ahead of this villa team in terms of playing style, another team I'd expect in the top 10 this season. We'd need patience with him though as it would take time to get up and running.

Despite all that, I hope Dean can do it, he's achieved everything expected of him at villa so far and is still learning.