Davkaus Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 That Croatian goal doesn't get old, absolutely brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 15, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: He has absolutely no time to react and is bringing his arm back down to his side. None of that counters my post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 As a defender you are taught not to jump up with your arms out, that’s the risk you take if you do. It was not intentional but his arm/hand moved towards the ball. Harsh and not deliberate but definitely a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 15, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2018 Just now, Dr_Pangloss said: Exactly. Stevo is confusing slow motion with real time. No I’m not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: What part are you disagreeing with there? Basically everything VAR hasn’t given the review to the referee correctly and it’s nowhere near being a deliberate handball. It’s an awful piece of refereeing all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) yeah you've got to give that IMO its not 100% that its intentional but theres definite movement downwards and contact there is no factually right answer to it though, its still an opinion which will forever be questioned Edited July 15, 2018 by villa4europe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Just now, Stevo985 said: Well they speak to him. So they probably said “that hit a hand did you see that?” And if he replies “yes but I don’t think it was a penalty” then they probably don’t refer it. I assume he said “I didn’t see it” so they get him to review it. Fair enough. I'd like to see some written guidance on VAR, FIFA doesn't seem to have published anything. I don't agree with your take on it being a penalty, not at all, but it's nice to be able to discuss it with someone that actually explains their rationale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Just now, Ingram85 said: As a defender you are taught not to jump up with your arms out, that’s the risk you take if you do. It was not intentional but his arm/hand moved towards the ball. Harsh and not deliberate but definitely a penalty. More people who dont understand the handball rule. No wonder these crazy decisions are being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 15, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: Basically everything VAR hasn’t given the review to the referee correctly and it’s nowhere near being a deliberate handball. It’s an awful piece of refereeing all round. There is literally no way you can argue that shouldn’t be reviewed. The referee clearly has not seen it. It’s a textbook VAR referral. Fair enough if you disagree with the ultimate decision the ref has made. I disagree but fair enough. But that is EXACTLY why VAR is there. To show a ref an incident he has obviously missed. Edited July 15, 2018 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 France i remember had one shot on target. Croatia keep this up get back into it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted July 15, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2018 The only deliberate hand ball I think I've ever seen is the Suarez one. If they just use the "deliberate" guideline, then pretty much no penalties should be given for hand ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 1 minute ago, bobzy said: More people who dont understand the handball rule. No wonder these crazy decisions are being made. Piss off. No need to be insulting. Plank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Just now, Ingram85 said: Piss off. No need to be insulting. Plank. Saying you don’t understand something is being insulting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Just now, bobzy said: Saying you don’t understand something is being insulting? I don’t care what you have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 15, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: More people who dont understand the handball rule. No wonder these crazy decisions are being made. The problem is your idyllic view of the handball rule is NOT how the rule is applied by referees. It should be, but it isn’t. Your way can’t be unless you can mind read. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: There is literally no way you can argue that shouldn’t be reviewed. The referee clearly has not seen it. It’s a textbook VAR referral. Fair enough if you disagree with the ultimate decision the ref has made. I disagree but fair enough. But that is EXACTLY why VAR is there. To show a ref an incident he hasn’t obviously missed. VAR looks at it goes “not deliberate”. Review over, doesn’t need to go the referee. It’s so, so basic. He missed the ball hitting a Croatian player, he didn’t miss any incident at all. Ultimately, that decision may have decided where the World Cup goes. Bonkers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Has to be a penalty for me and if it’s not under the rules then the rules need changing. His hand is well away from his body and the balls going towards the middle of the six yard box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Just now, PieFacE said: The only deliberate hand ball I think I've ever seen is the Suarez one. If they just use the "deliberate" guideline, then pretty much no penalties should be given for hand ball. There definitely needs to be more clear rules. I mean, people talk about arms out in the air, and natural/vs natural positions, but the laws of the game say: the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement The laws clearly also tell the ref to consider the distance of the player from the ball, as it being unexpected is a defence. We're basically at the point where it's a massive grey area, and it comes down to whatever refs agree among themselves being implemented. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, PieFacE said: The only deliberate hand ball I think I've ever seen is the Suarez one. If they just use the "deliberate" guideline, then pretty much no penalties should be given for hand ball. I think the "in an unnatural position" to be a good guideline. Like if your arm is above your head where it shouldn't be, if the ball hits that, it should be a penalty. But Perisic' arns were in a completely natural position, the only thing he could do was keep his hands in his pocket or behind his back or something. Very harsh penalty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: The problem is your idyllic view of the handball rule is NOT how the rule is applied by referees. It should be, but it isn’t. Your way can’t be unless you can mind read. There is no way you can judge that handball as being deliberate - UNLESS either Perisic knows Umtiti is missing his header OR Perisic has superhuman reactions. So yes, potentially mind reading in either case. Even people who think that’s a penalty are saying it’s “not deliberate”. Nothing idyllic, just a lack of knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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