TheAuthority Posted February 10 VT Supporter Share Posted February 10 38 minutes ago, omariqy said: I pray for the day I get to see these war criminals punished. The Hague awaits. That day will not come. Some are above the law. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Absolute horrifc images and videos coming out of Rafah last night. Absolute genocidal scum getting away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 10/02/2024 at 22:27, omariqy said: I pray for the day I get to see these war criminals punished. The Hague awaits. I wouldn't bother with the prayers if I was you, 0% chance that happens. There's no chance Putin ends up in The Hague, there's less chance these war criminals will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I must say that Hamas have played an absolute blinder in this conflict so far. They invade the 'evil oppressor', slaughter well over a thousand innocent men, women and children, kidnap hundreds more, leave their victim with no choice other than to pursue massive military intervention, hide behind their own civilians thereby ensuring massive loss of innocent life, then look on with glee as the world blames the victim for committing 'genocide'. Absolutely unbelievable. It's not surprising that the Muslim world, with its intrinsic hatred of Jews, laps it all up. It's quite surprising that so many lefty woke liberal types have swallowed it hook, line, and sinker though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 12 VT Supporter Share Posted February 12 Let's not hold our thoughts back. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 7 hours ago, regular_john said: I must say that Hamas have played an absolute blinder in this conflict so far. They invade the 'evil oppressor', slaughter well over a thousand innocent men, women and children, kidnap hundreds more, leave their victim with no choice other than to pursue massive military intervention, hide behind their own civilians thereby ensuring massive loss of innocent life, then look on with glee as the world blames the victim for committing 'genocide'. Absolutely unbelievable. It's not surprising that the Muslim world, with its intrinsic hatred of Jews, laps it all up. It's quite surprising that so many lefty woke liberal types have swallowed it hook, line, and sinker though. They don’t have an intrinsic hatred of Jews. That’s Islamophobic. They hate genocidal maniacs. Do you want me to list the massacres Israel carried out before Hamas even existed? Not sure why I’m bothering replying. You’ve obviously no clue about anything at all. Edited February 13 by omariqy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 38 minutes ago, omariqy said: They don’t have an intrinsic hatred of Jews. That’s Islamophobic. They hate genocidal maniacs. Do you want me to list the massacres Israel carried out before Hamas even existed? Not sure why I’m bothering replying. You’ve obviously no clue about anything at all. Is that a serious comment? The Islamic world is rife with anti-Semitism. The Jewish population in virtually every country across MENA has plummeted as a consequence of anti-Semitic violence, pogroms, and attempts at forced conversion. Muslims have been carrying out attacks on the Jews for virtually the entire history of their religion. Jew hatred is inscribed and codified in the heart of Islam - the Qur'an and the Hadith. 'Allah's messenger said "The Hour will not begin until you fight the Jews, until a Jew will hide behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will say: ‘O Muslim, O slave of Allah, here is a Jew behind me; come and kill him' - Sahih al-Bukhari 2926 Straight from the prophet himself. Yes, Hamas have only existed since the 80s but Palestinians (not a real term, by the way) and their allies have been attacking the Jews of Israel from the moment they dared to declare themselves a state, and for 70 odd years before that. So please do not try and stifle the truth of the situation under the guise of 'Islamophobia'. To do so is nothing more than a transparent attempt to shut down criticism of Islam and Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, omariqy said: They don’t have an intrinsic hatred of Jews. That’s Islamophobic. They hate genocidal maniacs. Do you want me to list the massacres Israel carried out before Hamas even existed? Not sure why I’m bothering replying. You’ve obviously no clue about anything at all. I think history shows something else, to be fair. It's complete whitewash to say that the Arab and Persian world doesn't have intrinsic hatred of Jews, because history and several Hadiths show exactly that. Exodus of Jews from the Muslim world Quote In the 20th century, approximately 900000 Jews migrated, fled, or were expelled from Muslim-majority countries throughout Africa and Asia. Primarily a consequence of the Israeli Declaration of Independence, the mass movement mainly transpired from 1948 to the early 1970s, with one final exodus of Iranian Jews occurring shortly after the Islamic Revolution in 1979–1980. An estimated 650000 (72%) of these Jews resettled in Israel.[1] It is estimated that something like 70% of those Jews who were ruthlessly purged from the Muslim world ended up in Israel. What do you think these people feel about getting invaded, threatened and blamed by a world that is so insular in its thought like the Arab world is showing in this conflict? Heck, I'd even put the argument to you that Israel is partly doing what it is doing today as a direct consequence of at least half of its population having been either cleansed from Arab states or direct descendents thereof and live with the constant fear of what happened in i.e. Iran, Iraq or Yemen where the majority of the Jewish populace was wiped out or fled essentially over a few weeks. Calling stating that fact Islamophobia reeks of what Margareth Hodge would call antisemitism. It really isn't. What I think a lot of the younger generations of both sides need to do is to stop watching Lowkey and the likes and rather try to read a bit about the history of both sets of populations, then maybe we wouldn't have the kind factionalism we see from both sets of supporters today. The Quran is also littered with antisemitism, much like medieval versions of the bible used to be. Edited February 13 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 8 hours ago, regular_john said: I must say that Hamas have played an absolute blinder in this conflict so far. They invade the 'evil oppressor', slaughter well over a thousand innocent men, women and children, kidnap hundreds more, leave their victim with no choice other than to pursue massive military intervention, hide behind their own civilians thereby ensuring massive loss of innocent life, then look on with glee as the world blames the victim for committing 'genocide'. Absolutely unbelievable. It's not surprising that the Muslim world, with its intrinsic hatred of Jews, laps it all up. It's quite surprising that so many lefty woke liberal types have swallowed it hook, line, and sinker though. These are strange times. It must be quite confusing for the average white racist that has known they have to bite their lip, to suddenly be able to express themselves, but only in support of Israel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I was going to type a whole thing but I found this which explains it better than I can. I mean I can marry a Jewish woman. My son is named after Moses. Be very weird to hate Jewish people and be able to marry them. I’m not saying Muslims haven’t committed crimes or discriminated against Jewish people. People can be bad across all religions. Jewish people have been discriminated no more than they were in Europe. I mean it’s great you’re back on this thread @magnkarl to defile Low-key but maybe some words on Israel given what’s happen these last few days would be welcome. Quote The hadith that you mentioned is following: Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." (Sahih Al Bukhari) This tradition of the Prophet has never been accepted by Islamic scholars as a commandment from Allah and His Prophet, this is only a prophecy and sign of the end times just like the Prophet told us many signs of the end times such as “The Hour will not come until time passes so quickly that a year will be like a month, a month like a week, a week like a day, a day like an hour, and an hour like the time it takes for a palm-leaf to burn.” (ibn Kathir). As to when this prophecy will come true is a matter unknown and only Allah knows. We Muslims accept this hadith and will do so as its an authentic tradition and the Prophet never lied whatever news he gave us. Golden Age of Jews in Islamic Empires The Jews have lived with Muslims side by side throughout the 14 centuries of Muslim rule in the middle east. Not only in Middle East but also in Central Asia, Muslim Spain and North Africa, they always preferred living within Islamic territory instead of Christian Europe to avoid persecution they faced in Europe such as the famous pogroms they faced there Pogrom - Wikipedia Had the above Hadith of Bukhari about fighting all Jews indiscriminately as is the case assumed by many non muslims and jews then Jews would not have been living in security and peace as they did in Islamic Spain when not only were they allowed to practice their faith but also they had such high posts within the Caliphate that, the Grand Vizier, who is 2nd to the Muslim Caliph was not a Muslim but a Jew named Hasdai Ibn Shaprut. He was the vizier during the time of Jews in Spain which is called ‘Golden Age of Jews in Spain’ due to peace and security they enjoyed. A letter, known as the Khazar Correspondence between Hasdai Ibn Shaprut and the Khazar King, gives a glowing account of the prosperity of Moorish Spain, and the happy condition of the Jews under its Caliph Abd al Rahman, “the like of which has never been known . . . And thus the derelict sheep were taken into care, the arms of their persecutors were paralysed, and the yoke was discarded. The country we live in is called in Hebrew Sepharad, but the Ishmaelites who inhabit it call it al-Andalus.” Hasdai shared a letter with the Byzantium Emperor of the time and also informed him about Jewish situation in Islamic Spain as compared to Christian territory. Hasdai sent a letter to Empress Helena of Byzantium in which he pleaded for religious liberty for the Jews of Byzantium. He pointed to his own warm relations with the Muslim Caliph in Córdoba as well as his benevolent attitude towards the Christians of Spain. Hasdai ibn Shaprut - Wikipedia Jewish historians like Abba Eban and Solomon Grayzel have acknowledged and recognized their “Golden Age of Diaspora” — the period of Jewish affluence and growth in Muslim Spain. When the Arab rule came to end in 1492, and the Jews were immediately expelled from Spain by the Christian rulers Ferdinand and Isabella, they were given refuge and asylum in the Ottoman Empire. Large population of Jews continued to prosper peacefully in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and Egypt, during the time when their brethren were suffering miserably in Europe, particularly in the Russian lands. These Sephardic Jews of Spain were part of a general population movement of Jews from the Christian Mediterranean to the Ottoman lands in the aftermath of their expulsion from Spain in 1492. Salonika a city in Ottoman Empire had large population of Jews settled there and welcomed by Ottoman Caliph that it was beginning to be known as the ‘Jerusalem of the East.’ In fact the Golden Age of the Diaspora of Jews did not end in Spain, it continued through 16th century and this time they experienced their golden age in Ottoman territory. The opportunities to progress were available to the extent that Sultan Selim II (r. 1566–74) awarded Nasí (a successful Jewish Immigrant of the century) the governorship of Naxos and the Cyclades Islands. This political office carried with it the title of sancakbeyi, a title rarely bestowed on a non-Muslim in Ottoman lands. When he died in 1579, Joseph Nasí was probably one of the wealthiest men in the Ottoman Empire. (Encyclopedia of the Ottoman Empire) The Quran only ever refers to those Christians and Jewish people that distorted the message for their own gain or turned their back on God and went against the prophets. Not all Jewish and Christians. It also deals with hypocrites is Islam who said one thing in front of the prophet pbuh and turned away from God when not with him. Quote he Qur’an expresses significant antipathytowardJews.Jews (or Israelites) areportrayed as disobeying God (2:93), rejectingtheir own covenant(2:100), failingto follow their ownTorah(5:66), and distortingortwisting the meaning of thedivinerevelation they received(2:101,174). Jews are even cursed by God in theQur’an (2:88;4:51–52), and on occasion it calls to fight them (or more accurately,some of them:9:29).Forsome observers,that is enough to condemn the Qur’anas“antisemitic.”But this reaction isreductive,mistaken, and irresponsible.Toarrive at suchaconclusion requires expresslyavoiding anyconsideration ofthe complexity of scripture and religion.To be precise, the Qur’an, like the He-brew Bible and NewTestament,directs resentment,anger,and even occasionalrage towardits detractors.These emotions are elemental in scripture, asIwilldemonstrate below.Toconsider such sentimentswhenever directed againstJews to be antisemitism is erroneous and irresponsible, for thereexistsavitaland unsubtle differencebetween the resentment and anger expressed in scrip-tures against parties considered threatening,and the preachingofracialized ha-tred that lies at the coreofantisemitism.¹The Qur’an, likethe Hebrew Bible, NewTestament,and other sacredtexts believed by their devotees to be divinelyauth-ored or inspired, includesasignificant amount of negative rhetoric directedagainst the communities it considers threatening.Jews are not singled out inthe Qur’an. In fact,atleast two other communities are feared andreviled signif-icantlymore in the Qur’an thanJews, as we shall observeinwhat follow Sorry not pasting properly but this goes I further depth about what’s actually said in the Quran and not what Tommy Robinson says it does. https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783110671773-007/html?lang=en Anyway I didn’t want to turn this into an analysis of religious texts. The crux of it is that we are now at 20,000 children and women killed. Ignoring all the innocent men killed too. Israel is committing war crimes every day. To pretend otherwise is **** stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 24 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: These are strange times. It must be quite confusing for the average white racist that has known they have to bite their lip, to suddenly be able to express themselves, but only in support of Israel. No coincidence every racist loves Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 18 minutes ago, omariqy said: No coincidence every racist loves Israel Yeah, I was talking in general terms, just across social media and even through work on building sites and whatever. Suddenly, there is a way to talk about ‘Muslims’ in general that hasn’t been possible for quite some time for the average person that had a dislike of Muslims. But from memory, ‘Jews’ were always the great threat. So I guess there has either been some great enlightenment in racist circles and they’ve realised it was all bollocks to tar every Jewish person with the same brush. Or, they’ve seen an opportunity and decided my enemy’s enemy is my friend. I start off thinking it must have taken some mental gymnastics, then I remember it probably didn’t actually involve a great deal of thought at all. To tar any whole group with anything, positive or negative, is ridiculous. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 39 minutes ago, omariqy said: No coincidence every racist loves Israel My mum is as racist as they come and she hates Israel for what it’s doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 45 minutes ago, omariqy said: I was going to type a whole thing but I found this which explains it better than I can. I mean I can marry a Jewish woman. My son is named after Moses. Be very weird to hate Jewish people and be able to marry them. I’m not saying Muslims haven’t committed crimes or discriminated against Jewish people. People can be bad across all religions. Jewish people have been discriminated no more than they were in Europe. I mean it’s great you’re back on this thread @magnkarl to defile Low-key but maybe some words on Israel given what’s happen these last few days would be welcome. The Quran only ever refers to those Christians and Jewish people that distorted the message for their own gain or turned their back on God and went against the prophets. Not all Jewish and Christians. It also deals with hypocrites is Islam who said one thing in front of the prophet pbuh and turned away from God when not with him. Sorry not pasting properly but this goes I further depth about what’s actually said in the Quran and not what Tommy Robinson says it does. https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783110671773-007/html?lang=en Anyway I didn’t want to turn this into an analysis of religious texts. The crux of it is that we are now at 20,000 children and women killed. Ignoring all the innocent men killed too. Israel is committing war crimes every day. To pretend otherwise is **** stupid. You could marry a Jewish woman, if you lived in Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Libya, Lebanon or any other country in the ME you'd be hard pressed to find one though as they've been ethnically cleansed out of all Arab nations and Iran. To say that Arab nations haven't contributed to this is just a-historical. The ME is the most ethnically clean area in the world. The actions of the countries there matter a lot more than whether or not you can find a passage in the Quran which says something about Jews that isn't despicable. Quote I mean it’s great you’re back on this thread @magnkarl to defile Low-key but maybe some words on Israel given what’s happen these last few days would be welcome. What is this supposed to imply? That I should mean something about Israel because I'm Jewish? There's page up and down about me describing my disgust with how they're acting (just as I'm disgusted with most ME states and how they're acting). As far as I can see no one is pretending otherwise, and the implication you've given there is bo¤#ox. Quote No coincidence every racist loves Israel I call BS. It sounds like something Lowkey would say. I'd say that once more the two tips of each side of the right-left horseshoe have met and both now hate Jews because of what Israel is doing. All indicators show it, crimes against Jews across all Western countries have gone up by several thousand percent since this started, and a fair few of those crimes have been committed by the 'left', including the idiots who keep protesting at my grandchild's school, blocking entrances and haggling 6-12 year olds when they see the school logo on their uniform. Edited February 13 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I'm actually getting very confused with the level of conspiracy theory going around, a builder I know suggests its all the Rothschild's fault and something to do with the battle of Waterloo. I tend to look at 'what is actually happening in front of ones eyes' and make my mind up using that old fashioned technique. Israel has been absolutely despicable given how many children it has wiped out and how it couldn't care less - that leaves a very bad taste as I am am sure it does for the middle class wokerati as it does for anybody Jewish, nobody with any decency wants this level of cruelty nor supports it. When oh when is Netanyahu and his mates going to get shoved out, it can't come soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 13 Moderator Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: Exodus of Jews from the Muslim world It is estimated that something like 70% of those Jews who were ruthlessly purged from the Muslim world ended up in Israel. What do you think these people feel about getting invaded, threatened and blamed by a world that is so insular in its thought like the Arab world is showing in this conflict? Heck, I'd even put the argument to you that Israel is partly doing what it is doing today as a direct consequence of at least half of its population having been either cleansed from Arab states or direct descendents thereof and live with the constant fear of what happened in i.e. Iran, Iraq or Yemen where the majority of the Jewish populace was wiped out or fled essentially over a few weeks. @magnkarl there's some very contentious language in there isn't there? I'll admit to not having a huge expertise - but just from the link you've included it would appear that this movement was to a large extent driven by the desire of Jewish people to move to Israel - to finally have a "home" they could move to. "Ruthlessly purge from the Muslim world" and "cleansed from Arab states" paints a very different picture to the link you've attached that talks a lot more about the foundation of modern Israel and the desire of Jewish people from surrounding countries to flock to a homeland they'd long dreamed of. The link itself mentions that the politicisation of the movement with different sides emphasising the "pull" versus "push" factors - and going on that (admittedly narrow) base of evidence, from an initial reading, are you not presenting just one extreme end of the argument about why and how this movement happened, and in doing so promoting the very factionalism you warn against at the end of your post? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regular_john Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: These are strange times. It must be quite confusing for the average white racist that has known they have to bite their lip, to suddenly be able to express themselves, but only in support of Israel. Muppet 1: "Someone is criticising Islam for it's myriad of anti-Semitic doctrines and the Islamic world for enacting anti-Semitic prejudice and violence for generations" Muppet 2: " Oh no! Quick, call them a racist!" As sure as the sun will rise and the sun will set, muppets will accuse those who criticise Islam of being racist. I assume you think that means all Muslims are of a certain ethnicity? Or that one must be a certain ethnicity to be a Muslim? Isn't that a touch ...racist of you? Islam is not a race, you muppet. It is a set of ideas and beliefs. Criticism of Islam and Muslims is no more racist than criticism of Catholics, Mormons, Scientologists, Jews, Hindus etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 minutes ago, regular_john said: Muppet 1: "Someone is criticising Islam for it's myriad of anti-Semitic doctrines and the Islamic world for enacting anti-Semitic prejudice and violence for generations" Muppet 2: " Oh no! Quick, call them a racist!" As sure as the sun will rise and the sun will set, muppets will accuse those who criticise Islam of being racist. I assume you think that means all Muslims are of a certain ethnicity? Or that one must be a certain ethnicity to be a Muslim? Isn't that a touch ...racist of you? Islam is not a race, you muppet. It is a set of ideas and beliefs. Criticism of Islam and Muslims is no more racist than criticism of Catholics, Mormons, Scientologists, Jews, Hindus etc. I think maybe you’ve read something, then assumed something, and then it’s made you angry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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