Sexism

[dAVe80]

Irony of a bunch of blokes talking about what is and isn't sexist. 

Joking aside, I think with anything that may or may not cause offence, you have to listen to the person it's aimed at. Telling someone that they shouldn't feel how they feel about something puts you on dodgy ground in my opinion. If Swifty thinks a joke at her expense is sexist, maybe listen to why she interprets it like that? As with anything like this, whether it's sexism, racism, homophobia, or whatever, not everyone is going to understand every nuance, so take every opportunity to learn and if necessary correct your perception. 

[Paddywhack]

Sexist or not, sounded like a shit joke anyway.

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Yeah agreed. maybe the joke itself isn't sexist, but it's the fact it wouldn't get made if she was a man

not 100 percent sure on that, Leonardo Di Caprio always gets similar jokes about the women he goes through from the likes of John Oliver

[lapal_fan]

9 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

Irony of a bunch of blokes talking about what is and isn't sexist. 

Joking aside, I think with anything that may or may not cause offence, you have to listen to the person it's aimed at. Telling someone that they shouldn't feel how they feel about something puts you on dodgy ground in my opinion. If Swifty thinks a joke at her expense is sexist, maybe listen to why she interprets it like that? As with anything like this, whether it's sexism, racism, homophobia, or whatever, not everyone is going to understand every nuance, so take every opportunity to learn and if necessary correct your perception. 

You can be offended by the joke, that doesn't matter - but that doesn't make it a sexist joke, just because the individual thinks it is - because it's not. 

She can feel however she wants, that's her choice. 

 

[sidcow]

28 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

 I think the majority of women would be more offended by folks getting offended on their behalf about something they don’t find offensive.

On this point I asked Mrs Sidcow about this and she didn't think it at all sexist. 

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, lapal_fan said:

You can be offended by the joke, that doesn't matter - but that doesn't make it a sexist joke, just because the individual thinks it is - because it's not. 

She can feel however she wants, that's her choice. 

 

 

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

On this point I asked Mrs Sidcow about this and she didn't think it at all sexist. 

 

Now we just need to find one black person that will give us a pass for some racist humour and we can get that Jim Davidson Special back on ITV.

 

[Zatman]

I also dont know the show that made the joke, is it a comedy that usually makes jokes like this or was it just a throwaway gag for cheap humour.

If a show like South Park made this joke I doubt would be this much backlash

[useless]

People are calling it a 'joke' but if you watch the scene the reference to Taylor Swift wasn't said in a comedic manner and the scene overall doesn't look like it's meant to be comedic...

It's sexist because the show is using the idea that Taylor Swift 'goes through a lot of men' as a negative, whereas a man going through a lot woman wouldn't be used as a negative.

[lapal_fan]

5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

 

Now we just need to find one black person that will give us a pass for some racist humour and we can get that Jim Davidson Special back on ITV.

 

If I'm reading it the way I'm reading it, then that doesn't work, or I'm reading it wrong.

Care to elaborate? 

[dAVe80]

11 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

You can be offended by the joke, that doesn't matter - but that doesn't make it a sexist joke, just because the individual thinks it is - because it's not. 

She can feel however she wants, that's her choice. 

 

If it contains a sexist trope, then yeah it kind of does make it sexist. 

Like I said, I get that it's hard to understand every nuance, so I'm not judging. I get where your point of view is coming from. It will take some people longer to get it than others. I get that some people will probably never get there. I'm just making the point that just because you don't think it is sexist, doesn't mean that others will, and that if they do we should listen as to why, and then try not to say those things anymore. That's definitely something I've learned to do. In the past 4 or 5 years especially. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by dAVe80

[lapal_fan]

1 minute ago, dAVe80 said:

If it contains a sexist trope, then yeah it kind of does make it sexist. 

Like I said, I get that it's hard to understand every nuance, so I'm not judging. I get where you're point of view is coming from. It will take some people longer to get it than others. I get that some people will probably never get there. I'm just making the point that just because you don't think it is sexist, doesn't mean that others will, and that if they do we should listen as to why, and then try not to say those things anymore. That's definitely something I've learned to do. In the past 4 or 5 years especially. 

What?

I wouldn't say it.  

I've now seen the actual "thing" and it's not even a joke, it's used as dialogue as a simile for that woman's friend being a bit slaggy.  That's not a kind thing to say, it's not a nice thing to use as a reference and whilst she doesn't mention actual sexual activity in the dialogue I guess most people would interpret it that way (without knowing anything about the show). 

I get why Taylor is upset. 

Maybe if the scene was between two men Leo DiCaprio would have been name-dropped - but it wasn't, so we'll never know the writers intent. 

I'd still argue that in any court it would be hard to angle "sexism" though, but you never know, we might find out! 

[Stevo985]

16 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

If I'm reading it the way I'm reading it, then that doesn't work, or I'm reading it wrong.

Care to elaborate? 

One woman saying something isn't sexist doesn't mean it isn't sexist

[Stevo985]

30 minutes ago, Zatman said:

not 100 percent sure on that, Leonardo Di Caprio always gets similar jokes about the women he goes through from the likes of John Oliver

But not as a negative. Which is the point. For Leo it's always a bit nudge nudge wink wink what a lad. All these women, he's living the high life.

With Taylor and other women it's not framed like that at all.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Stevo985

[bickster]

10 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

I've now seen the actual "thing" and it's not even a joke, it's used as dialogue as a simile for that woman's friend being a bit slaggy

So after 300 million posts claiming its not what it is you actually go and see it....

[useless]

There would never be a serious scene on a TV show with two men arguing and one of the men saying to the other as a criticism: 'you go through women faster than Leonardo DiCaprio!'.

[chrisp65]

9 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

If I'm reading it the way I'm reading it, then that doesn't work, or I'm reading it wrong.

Care to elaborate? 

There’s not really anything to elaborate on.

It felt a bit like mansplaining to a female why a joke directly about that female wasn’t offensive in the way she took it to be offensive. 

I’d feel a bit awkward arguing against someone that felt they’d been dissed in some way. I might not agree, but it’s really difficult to see something from their perspective with their history of tiny grievances built up over a life time. You’re right, if she took it down a legal route, she probably wouldn’t win. 

Similarly, finding one person from any group or demographic and comparing their reaction to an event or law or joke, with the reaction of the individual directly impacted, doesn’t really bring that much to the party. If anything, it kind of suggests all females, or all black people, or all sikhs etc., are the same. Which itself, is a bit of a problematic presumption.

....Stevo already said it in far fewer words.

 

[sidcow]

26 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

 

Now we just need to find one black person that will give us a pass for some racist humour and we can get that Jim Davidson Special back on ITV.

 

Well that depends on if Mrs Sidcow is in splendid isolation or a good representation of how most women may find this.

Your single black person will not be a good representation of how most black people will feel about Jim Davidson.

I was merely stating what she said, not that she was the oracle.

As an aside Jim Davidson as a stand up was a little before my time, I only really knew him from Big Break.  Some older friends of mine once encouraged me to watch one of his videos they had as they thought it was the funniest thing they had ever seen.  I was absolutely shocked, I mean really really shocked.  I had no idea what his act was like (then).  I think we can all safely say his work will never be seen again on TV and quite rightly so.

[lapal_fan]

12 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Well that depends on if Mrs Sidcow is in splendid isolation or a good representation of how most women may find this.

Your single black person will not be a good representation of how most black people will feel about Jim Davidson.

I was merely stating what she said, not that she was the oracle.

As an aside Jim Davidson as a stand up was a little before my time, I only really knew him from Big Break.  Some older friends of mine once encouraged me to watch one of his videos they had as they thought it was the funniest thing they had ever seen.  I was absolutely shocked, I mean really really shocked.  I had no idea what his act was like (then).  I think we can all safely say his work will never be seen again on TV and quite rightly so.

Same.  Like you, only knew him off Big Break when I was 10 or so.  Saw one of his "stage shows" of Robin Hood on youtube via a "can you believe this prick?" thing and wow - what a dickhead, and the dwarf from Star Wars was in it too.. 

I got duped into going to watch Rob Chubby Brown when I was 20 at Dudley Town Hall.. That was genuinely one of the most painful nights of my life.  People (inc women) somehow found him funny. 

[lapal_fan]

24 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

There’s not really anything to elaborate on.

It felt a bit like mansplaining to a female why a joke directly about that female wasn’t offensive in the way she took it to be offensive. 

I’d feel a bit awkward arguing against someone that felt they’d been dissed in some way. I might not agree, but it’s really difficult to see something from their perspective with their history of tiny grievances built up over a life time. You’re right, if she took it down a legal route, she probably wouldn’t win. 

Similarly, finding one person from any group or demographic and comparing their reaction to an event or law or joke, with the reaction of the individual directly impacted, doesn’t really bring that much to the party. If anything, it kind of suggests all females, or all black people, or all sikhs etc., are the same. Which itself, is a bit of a problematic presumption.

....Stevo already said it in far fewer words.

 

It's very hard to comment on anything if you're trying to shoe-horn in every individuals feelings.

Grouping things is a pretty good system as it stands. 

The job is to not say racist or sexist or hurtful - but when people joke there's always going to be a "butt".  Obviously we have laws which make certain things to say illegal, which is a good thing! 

I don't think it's sexist for the reasons I've previously pointed out (like 44% of her singles are about breakups ergo, people joke about her having a lot of relationships, or use her as a comparison, as the show did), but it's not a nice thing to say about her and I wouldn't say it myself (not that Taylor Swift is in my brain sphere anyway).

[lapal_fan]

33 minutes ago, useless said:

There would never be a serious scene on a TV show with two men arguing and one of the men saying to the other as a criticism: 'you go through women faster than Leonardo DiCaprio!'.

I make it my goal to disprove that