The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[villa4europe]

4 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

Alarmingly so. I've no proof obviously and I sound like a tool chirping on about it but something is going on in the prem, something stinks.

I think it's a mixture of not being fit for purpose, literally with moss, ineptitude, too many rule changes which they're not getting across to fans well enough seemingly players at times too and then I don't think it's corruption or bribery or anything like that but at worst I think a few of them do think they're part of the entertainment, they aren't detrimental to the PL product they're part of it, almost WWE refs at times 

The number of rule changes under Mike Riley is insane 

Edited December 14, 2021 by villa4europe

[Stevo985]

8 hours ago, turvontour said:

How do you win possession back then?

You tackle the player.

 

Every time Grealish used to put his body between the man and the ball and win a foul were you saying the same thing?

I don't really understand what's happening here. People are rewriting the rules of football.

Salah stepped across the ball while he was in possession, he's allowed to do that. Mings bundled into him. It wasn't deliberate, but that doesn't mean it isn't a foul. 

[villa4europe]

22 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

You tackle the player.

 

Every time Grealish used to put his body between the man and the ball and win a foul were you saying the same thing?

I don't really understand what's happening here. People are rewriting the rules of football.

Salah stepped across the ball while he was in possession, he's allowed to do that. Mings bundled into him. It wasn't deliberate, but that doesn't mean it isn't a foul. 

The problem is football is a contact sport

And that contact did not do that to salah

Mings is allowed to touch him 

[The_Steve]

9 hours ago, turvontour said:

This Salah dive is all the more embarrassing as he has a low centre of gravity. 

It looks like Mings is just about to clear the ball with his left foot when Salah deliberately lunged across his path causing Mings to trip. The problem for Salah is he was hoping that Mings would wipe him out, but he doesnt, so Salah has to do that awful dive. It really does look pathetic in slow motion given how good we know his balance is. It's one of his main talents.

Having watched Salah’s dive I’ve noticed how instead of planting his foot naturally he continues to hop with his left foot hoping to get the contact from Mings. He’s absolutely in control of the situation but chooses instead to go down. It’s honestly one of the worse dives and simulated fouls I’ve seen in ages. Shameful for such a talented player. 

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, villa4europe said:

The problem is football is a contact sport

And that contact did not do that to salah

Mings is allowed to touch him 

He is, but it's still a foul. I'm not denying Salah made the most of it. But we all know that we're way past the point in football where players won't make the most of contact.

And I'm not convinced Salah could have stayed on his feet anyway.

It's a foul

[villa4europe]

Just now, The_Steve said:

Having watched Salah’s dive I’ve noticed how instead of planting his foot naturally he continues to hop with his left foot hoping to get the contact from Mings. He’s absolutely in control of the situation but chooses instead to go down. It’s honestly one of the worse dives and simulated fouls I’ve seen in ages. Shameful for such a talented player. 

100% this, he can easily plant his left foot and stay stood up but he chooses not to, the movement of his left foot is designed and is actually harder to do and more unnatural than just standing up

And then he twisted his hip and threw himself in to it

Mings does neither of those things to him, he does that to himself 

[The_Steve]

7 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

100% this, he can easily plant his left foot and stay stood up but he chooses not to, the movement of his left foot is designed and is actually harder to do and more unnatural than just standing up

And then he twisted his hip and threw himself in to it

Mings does neither of those things to him, he does that to himself 

As good as that Liverpool side is - it’s made extra hard to compete against a side so committed to diving - Salah, Mane, Robertson to name but a few. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by The_Steve

[BG_Villa_Fan]

15 hours ago, jimmygreaves said:

Forward kicks/trips defender. Defender falls. Forward remembers to also fall.

If anyone thinks this is a stonewall penalty, then they have whatever the opposite of claret and blue specs is. 

[Zatman]

15 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

Mark Halsey on Talk sport earlier as good as saying the use of VAR is still floored and needs sorting. Dermot Gallagher of Sky sports agreeing most was bang on. 

Dermot Gallagher agrees with every ref decision ever. He even agreed that the City goal last season was correct. Doesn't want to insult his mates

[Stevo985]

8 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Dermot Gallagher agrees with every ref decision ever. He even agreed that the City goal last season was correct. Doesn't want to insult his mates

But all the pundits and commentators I've seen commenting on it have agreed it's a clear penalty as well. Including Lee Hendrie on co-commentary. Even pundits who said the Ings one should have been a penalty too (which I think i agree with), so they were hardly showing bias.

Even Mings didn't complain for one second. He knew it was a penalty.

I honestly think it's clear cut. I'm really surprised that there is so much controversy around it. I'm happy to admit I might be wrong, but that's genuinely how I see it. I'll say it again, if that exact thing happened down the other end to Watkins and we got a penalty, we wouldn't for one second be saying it was soft. And if we didn't get the decision we would all be absolutely raging about it

[Zatman]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

But all the pundits and commentators I've seen commenting on it have agreed it's a clear penalty as well. Including Lee Hendrie on co-commentary. Even pundits who said the Ings one should have been a penalty too (which I think i agree with), so they were hardly showing bias.

Even Mings didn't complain for one second. He knew it was a penalty.

I honestly think it's clear cut. I'm really surprised that there is so much controversy around it. I'm happy to admit I might be wrong, but that's genuinely how I see it. I'll say it again, if that exact thing happened down the other end to Watkins and we got a penalty, we wouldn't for one second be saying it was soft. And if we didn't get the decision we would all be absolutely raging about it

I was mainly just criticising the Dermot Gallagher punditry more than the incident

At the end its probably a penalty but I can also see why it wouldnt be given, its definitely not clear cut as we have had about 10 pages of argument.

If was Ollie vs Robertson at the other end it would not have been given

[Stevo985]

Just now, Zatman said:

 

If was Ollie vs Robertson at the other end it would not have been given

This is the bit I do agree with. Well actually I don't agree with it, because I think it would be given, BUT I acknowledge there's a good chance it wouldn't. And that's the issue here. It's the inconsistency.

For me it's a penalty, but the issue is Liverpool always get decisions like that and teams like us don't

[OutByEaster?]

42 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

It's a foul

I don't think it's a foul.

I do think it's a penalty. 

In the modern game, those are given consistently, they are understood to be given by players and managers and to an extent by supporters.

Mings makes the mistake of running along a line that lets Salah get in front of him, that's his error, Salah sees that, throws his hip across Mings to put his body between man and ball, slows down as much as he can and waits for Mings momentum to come into him. Mings does nothing but run, but he's made the mistake already in the angle of his run - he's not set out to foul Salah and he's not made any physical effort to try to foul him - for me, he hasn't fouled him - but it's still a definite penalty, because that's how the rule is interpreted and how it's understood by everyone involved.

He knows the mistake is the angle of his run, Salah knows that too and the referee will always blow his whistle once the contact happens - it's a penalty - we can argue the morality of that until the cows come home, but that's the way the rule is interpreted and the way it's consistently interpreted and I guess some sort of consistency is at least nice to have.

 

 

[turvontour]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

You tackle the player.

 

Every time Grealish used to put his body between the man and the ball and win a foul were you saying the same thing?

I don't really understand what's happening here. People are rewriting the rules of football.

Salah stepped across the ball while he was in possession, he's allowed to do that. Mings bundled into him. It wasn't deliberate, but that doesn't mean it isn't a foul. 

Salah wasnt in possession. If you push the ball 5 yards the other side of a defender and run parallel to then then you're not in possession. Mings was in the process of hooking the ball out for a corner or throw in, and Salah voluntarily steps into Mings clearing the ball. He hasn't come through Salah in any shape or form.

Grealish was guilty of it sure, Kane is, Salah is, Pogba is etc. I'd rather we get to a position where collectively they're not given as we have players that fall for it. I think Douglas Luiz fell for it twice last season with Pogba in two different games, and tight games too annoyingly. Like this Salah one. That fake challenge/contact was the match, the three points to them, none to us. It shouldn't be like that. 

[Phil Silvers]

1 hour ago, BG_Villa_Fan said:

If anyone thinks this is a stonewall penalty, then they have whatever the opposite of claret and blue specs is. 

It's almost like some on here just support us as a form of self-flagellation, they wait a day or two till Dermot Gallagher has given his God like confirmation that all refs are always right,  then they can't wait to get on here with comments like claret and blue V/T idiot wearing specs. Jokers.

[WakefieldVillan]

19 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I don't think it's a foul.

I do think it's a penalty. 

In the modern game, those are given consistently, they are understood to be given by players and managers and to an extent by supporters.

Mings makes the mistake of running along a line that lets Salah get in front of him, that's his error, Salah sees that, throws his hip across Mings to put his body between man and ball, slows down as much as he can and waits for Mings momentum to come into him. Mings does nothing but run, but he's made the mistake already in the angle of his run - he's not set out to foul Salah and he's not made any physical effort to try to foul him - for me, he hasn't fouled him - but it's still a definite penalty, because that's how the rule is interpreted and how it's understood by everyone involved.

He knows the mistake is the angle of his run, Salah knows that too and the referee will always blow his whistle once the contact happens - it's a penalty - we can argue the morality of that until the cows come home, but that's the way the rule is interpreted and the way it's consistently interpreted and I guess some sort of consistency is at least nice to have.

 

 

If it isn't a foul (by Mings) then it shouldn't be a pen - Regardless of whether they "usually" get given or not. 

If there is a foul then it is by Salah - he is stepping into Mings - Which our manager agrees with.

At full speed it looks like a pen - and I will reiterate I can see why it was given, but slowed down you can see it is manipulated by Salah and compounded by the theatrical fall.

I think Mings did make the mistake of getting "too close" and giving Salah the chance to go down (he has previous of course) and maybe he at the time thought it was a foul, hence an acceptance in his reaction, but I bet once he's seen it back he would certainly change his mind.

If that was Ollie at the other end I would still maintain that if that was given as a pen then it is extremely soft but as others have alluded to - it wouldn't have been given, I am very confident of that. It's a bigger club decision that happened throughout the weekend.

 

 

 

 

[The_Steve]

I don’t think you’d get a free kick for Salah anywhere else on the pitch - unless the ref is sold by the theatrics. He was happy enough to tell Mane to get up when Cash brushed his shoulder. 

[Lichfield Dean]

18 hours ago, jimmygreaves said:

Forward kicks/trips defender. Defender falls. Forward remembers to also fall.

He literally jumps into Mings and elbows him in the back. It's a foul on Mings.

[PussEKatt]

That looks like a DIY penalty to me.

[Stevo985]

3 hours ago, turvontour said:

Salah wasnt in possession.

Now you're just making stuff up