Stevo985 Posted December 13, 2021 Author VT Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2021 Jimenez has nobody to blame but himself. Moronic actions to get sent off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefieldVillan Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: The Salah penalty is so obviously a penalty. I really don't understand the debate around it. Even Mings didn't complain. I don't think it is obvious TBH. At first glance I can see why it was given, that's before you take into account it's at the Kop End and they have had a couple of other ones they appealed from earlier in the game (dives!) so no doubt the pressure was mounting from the home fans. But our gaffer as said this after the game: "Ultimately the game has been decided by a penalty. There were two penalty incidents in the game, Liverpool got theirs – if you look at that one, Salah fouls Mings first" “We’ve lost to a soft penalty because if you watch it properly, Tyrone’s been fouled first. The disappointing thing is that the referee hasn’t gone to look at it. I agree with him. I don't think ours was either FWIW. I thought Chelsea's winning pen, City's pen and Man Utd's pen were all soft and if it was roles reversed none would have been given IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 13, 2021 Author VT Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, WakefieldVillan said: I don't think it is obvious TBH. At first glance I can see why it was given, that's before you take into account it's at the Kop End and they have had a couple of other ones they appealed from earlier in the game (dives!) so no doubt the pressure was mounting from the home fans. But our gaffer as said this after the game: "Ultimately the game has been decided by a penalty. There were two penalty incidents in the game, Liverpool got theirs – if you look at that one, Salah fouls Mings first" “We’ve lost to a soft penalty because if you watch it properly, Tyrone’s been fouled first. The disappointing thing is that the referee hasn’t gone to look at it. I agree with him. I don't think ours was either FWIW. I thought Chelsea's winning pen, City's pen and Man Utd's pen were all soft and if it was roles reversed none would have been given IMO. Chelsea and Man City's penalties were extremely soft. I just don't think Salah's was. Mings clearly fouls him. Salah might have made the most of it, but like I said above Trezeguet has made the most of it in that one vs Brighton. Doesn't mean it isn't a foul. Ultimately if that happened to Ings in their box and we didn't get the penalty, then we'd all be going absolutely mental about it. The difference is, of course, we probably wouldn't get it. That's the issue really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: The difference is, of course, we probably wouldn't get it. That's the issue really. Well, indeed. And the subsequent situation with Ings and Alison proves just that. I’d be happy for neither to be given, but you can’t give the one and not the other. But that’s precisely what happens, every single time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 13, 2021 Author VT Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, El Zen said: Well, indeed. And the subsequent situation with Ings and Alison proves just that. I’d be happy for neither to be given, but you can’t give the one and not the other. But that’s precisely what happens, every single time. Yep, it's inconsistency. The Salah one is a penalty all day long. The issue is we've seen many times that we don't always get those kinds of decisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Yep, it's inconsistency. The Salah one is a penalty all day long. The issue is we've seen many times that we don't always get those kinds of decisions I’m honestly tempted to say it’s not actually inconsistency. They’re consistently given in favour of the likes of Liverpool, Man United etc. and quite consistently not given for whoever the same teams are playing. It’s biased. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: The Salah penalty is so obviously a penalty. I really don't understand the debate around it. Even Mings didn't complain. I thought so in real time but looking back Salah initiated all of the contact, then Mings stumbles and then fouls him. They're next to each other and he puts his leg in between Mings', Mings obviously touches him and he falls over. Not really sure what Mings is supposed to do differently? His legs have to go somewhere. Edited December 13, 2021 by StefanAVFC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 13, 2021 Author VT Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2021 17 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I thought so in real time but looking back Salah initiated all of the contact, then Mings stumbles and then fouls him. They're next to each other and he puts his leg in between Mings', Mings obviously touches him and he falls over. Not really sure what Mings is supposed to do differently? His legs have to go somewhere. It's a stonewall penalty to be honest. I honestly don't understand the controversy. If that happens in the other box we'd be laughing at Liverpool fans if they said it wasn't a pen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefieldVillan Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 27 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Chelsea and Man City's penalties were extremely soft. I just don't think Salah's was. Mings clearly fouls him. Salah might have made the most of it, but like I said above Trezeguet has made the most of it in that one vs Brighton. Doesn't mean it isn't a foul. Ultimately if that happened to Ings in their box and we didn't get the penalty, then we'd all be going absolutely mental about it. The difference is, of course, we probably wouldn't get it. That's the issue really. That's fair enough, I just think Salah has initiated contact then made the most of it therefore not a pen for me. I agree Trez made the most of the Brighton one too (in fact more so) I would like to think that if Ings did the same as Salah had, then I would have had the same opinion and said no pen, but hey ho - It was given, we probably deserved nothing on balance of play but very frustrating nevertheless. Not liked VAR from day one and still don't. It has it's uses if used right but we still get poor decision after poor decision and it's one of the things that's killing the game (for me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefieldVillan Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: It's a stonewall penalty to be honest. I honestly don't understand the controversy. If that happens in the other box we'd be laughing at Liverpool fans if they said it wasn't a pen I think the fact that there's a few of us on here debating it indicates it isn't really a stonewall one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: It's a stonewall penalty to be honest. Doesn't address anything I've said. Edited December 13, 2021 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, WakefieldVillan said: I think the fact that there's a few of us on here debating it indicates it isn't really a stonewall one. Not just on here. From neutrals all over the place. With a stonewall penalty, there's no debate either from biased fans or neutral ones. That's pretty undebatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 35 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I thought so in real time but looking back Salah initiated all of the contact, then Mings stumbles and then fouls him. They're next to each other and he puts his leg in between Mings', Mings obviously touches him and he falls over. Not really sure what Mings is supposed to do differently? His legs have to go somewhere. This.... Salah kicks Mings' planted foot causing Mings to stumble. Salah the makes sure he himself goes down as theatrically as possible. Anyone else, not a pen and a foul on the defender. Sky club, definitely a pen. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 13, 2021 Author VT Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2021 22 minutes ago, WakefieldVillan said: I think the fact that there's a few of us on here debating it indicates it isn't really a stonewall one. I think without the claret and blue specs on, it's stonewall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 13, 2021 Author VT Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Doesn't address anything I've said. You agreed. You said Mings fouled him. I agree, he did. Initiating contact isn't an offence. Mings has clumsily bundles him over. Salah might have made the most of it, but like I said, the Trez penalty you posted he makes the most of it. You can't say that ine is fine and the Salah one isn't. They're both penalties. The debate is our one got wrongly overturned None of us had a problem with Grealish initiating contact 10 times a game for 5 seasons. Edited December 13, 2021 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: I think without the claret and blue specs on, it's stonewall I think this might be the issue.... It's "stonewall" cause it's Liverpool (or city, United, etc...). Any other game not involving them it'd be soft/questionable, there'd be a conversation. Awarded against them it'd be a travesty of the rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: You agreed. You said Mings fouled him. I agree, he did. Initiating contact isn't an offence. Mings has clumsily bundles him over. Salah might have made the most of it, but like I said, the Trez penalty you posted he makes the most of it. You can't say that ine is fine and the Salah one isn't. They're both penalties. The debate is our one got wrongly overturned None of us had a problem with Grealish initiating contact 10 times a game for 5 seasons. So a forward can kick or trip a defender and expect to be awarded a pen? None of us had a problem with Grealish or Young back in the day, but we were all clear on it being cheating. Edited December 13, 2021 by jimmygreaves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 13, 2021 Author VT Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2021 Just now, jimmygreaves said: So a forward can kick or trip a defender and expect to be awarded a pen? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 13, 2021 Author VT Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said: I think this might be the issue.... It's "stonewall" cause it's Liverpool (or city, United, etc...). It's a penalty because it's a penalty. The issue is smaller teams more often don't get those kind of decisions, which we've seen plenty of times ourselves. The Watkins vs West Ham thing last season. If that happened to Salah and it WAS given, then the issue isn't that it wasn't a foul and they got a soft penalty. The issue is they rightly got a penalty and we were screwed out of ours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: No Salah literally tripped Mings 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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