Burnley

[oishiiniku_uk]

41 minutes ago, villa89 said:

But their strategy is to maintain their place as one of the best Championship teams and to hopefully be able to sell on young players to teams in the top half of the premier league for a big profit. They know they aren't a premier league team. Sure they can shit house a few seasons playing dyche ball but that's not a long term strategy. All of their summer signings were with a view to being relegated this season. If they go down they will be stable and not have to engage in a mad sell off.  Aaron Ramsey is a case in point, they aren't pinning their hopes on him keeping them up. 

I don't know enough about most of the players they bought to know if they were widely coveted by other top-flight teams and whether they would retain value if/when Burnley get relegated. If they get beaten most weeks (often heavily) between now and the end of the season, does that affect their players' confidence, form and ultimately value? Looking at the players who were sold by relegated clubs to the PL last summer for big money (Lavia, Adams, Barnes, Livramento etc.), they were all performing well despite playing in poor teams. Nobody is playing well for Burnley at the moment. I guess in the case of relegation, the plan would be to keep most of them in the Championship, build their confidence & value back up and then either sell or keep them (assuming they go straight back up). It could work...

Another issue is: Does Vincent Kompany keep his job if they're cut adrift by December? From the Burnley doc it looked like he was pretty integral to transfer policy and overall football strategy. Maybe their structure is such that they already have a replacement earmarked (like Brighton do) if/when the manager leaves, but if not then they could be left with a lot of players who don't suit the next guy's style of football. Always a risk I guess, but they've gone very heavily in the direction of prioritizing youth/potential above all else. A more balanced strategy which included a bit more (PL) experience might have been smarter (and could have stood them a better chance of staying in the division). Time will tell though, I guess.

[PaulC]

Kompany is a bit stubborn and arrogant. He doesn't want to change his football philosophy and be more pragmatic. He also lacks a goal scorer. Not sure whether Foster is injured but heard he has some mental health issue.  

[Zatman]

5 hours ago, PaulC said:

Kompany is a bit stubborn and arrogant. He doesn't want to change his football philosophy and be more pragmatic. He also lacks a goal scorer. Not sure whether Foster is injured but heard he has some mental health issue.  

I would describe Kompany as shit. He is on the Gerrard/Lambert level of manager. 

Ex players have no right to get a good job

[oishiiniku_uk]

Quote

Clarets face struggle to avoid relegation after becoming the first English top flight side to lose their opening six home matches

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/nov/10/kompany-wedded-to-style-of-play-but-statistics-do-not-bode-well-for-burnley

[AXD]

6 hours ago, Zatman said:

I would describe Kompany as shit. He is on the Gerrard/Lambert level of manager. 

Ex players have no right to get a good job

He did rebuild an Dyche burnley team and won the championship in style, se he is above the shit manager category. Also, when he took the job, it wasn’t considered that attractive because the rebuild necessary. This of course did have the parachute payments to make it easier.

he made it a good job to his own credit. He now has to prove he can do better by keeping them up and imo did not do the best of transfer business (no PL experience) and is not adapting his style of play so far

[duke313]

7 minutes ago, AXD said:

He did rebuild an Dyche burnley team and won the championship in style, se he is above the shit manager category. Also, when he took the job, it wasn’t considered that attractive because the rebuild necessary. This of course did have the parachute payments to make it easier.

he made it a good job to his own credit. He now has to prove he can do better by keeping them up and imo did not do the best of transfer business (no PL experience) and is not adapting his style of play so far

Who’d have thought trying to play Pep style football with Championship level players in the PL would be a bad idea.

[Rds1983]

When Burnley go back down. If they keep Kompany and retain most of the young players they've bought then they should be good to bounce straight back up again. The walked the league last time and the youngsters are now more experienced. They can then further strengthen and build a team likely to stay up.

[PaulC]

3 hours ago, Rds1983 said:

When Burnley go back down. If they keep Kompany and retain most of the young players they've bought then they should be good to bounce straight back up again. The walked the league last time and the youngsters are now more experienced. They can then further strengthen and build a team likely to stay up.

Apparently they are all on championship wages anyway so maybe its a long term project and they expect to get relegated.

[villa4europe]

Wasn't that what they did with Dyche? 

[Mantis]

15 hours ago, Zatman said:

I would describe Kompany as shit. He is on the Gerrard/Lambert level of manager. 

Ex players have no right to get a good job

Come on Lambert is nowhere near as bad as Gerrard (and neither is Kompany). Still a very overrated manager though but he's one of the media darlings.

[Zatman]

58 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Come on Lambert is nowhere near as bad as Gerrard (and neither is Kompany). Still a very overrated manager though but he's one of the media darlings.

I meant to type Lampard

[MWARLEY2]

On 09/11/2023 at 18:56, useless said:

People do this at this stage every single season, write teams off as already relegated or declare that there's no way such and such team will be relegated, and then most seasons by it's end a lot changes

Burnley might well be relegated, but would hardly be the biggest surprise if they managed to finish above Sheffield United, Luton, and Bournemouth.

I think the idea that they only signed inexperienced players is a bit of a myth as well, they signed a couple of teenagers from abroad that were probably more U21 signings, and then Aaron Ramsey and James Trafford, but that's different from what Southampton did, the young players that Southampton signed  hadn't even played any first team football, them bringing in academy players was more of a last season thing, and worked out well for them, but those players returned to their parent clubs in the summer - they probably would be better off if they had have re-signed them.

They have the youngest squad in the prem. They have very little prem experiience in the squad. They have one of the lowest wage bills in the Prem.  Kompany will not adjust his philosphy. There is no backbone to lean on within the squad. I would love to see them do well because of AJ but all the signs so far have been of a team that doesnt have the required skillset and experience to climb up the league. They might well survive but i doubt it will be because of their ability, but rather the inability of other teams. 

The old Burnley did the opposite. Fill the team with experienced and tough players. 

I think a happy medium between the 2 would have been the best way to go. 

[foreveryoung]

There gone already i'd say!

[Spoony]

22 hours ago, Zatman said:

I would describe Kompany as shit. He is on the Gerrard/Lambert level of manager. 

Ex players have no right to get a good job

I agree with the highlighted sentiment but I think the rest is harsh in this instance. He did a decent job at Anderlecht and absolutely smashed the Championship with Burnley so it was clearly a good appointment. Wheels are coming off but the task to keep a team up is so so hard and maybe he wasn’t ready for that challenge but he earned the right to try by dominating the championship. That said, what they need right now is a more defensive and boring manager as they will just keep haemorrhaging goals as they are 

[Zatman]

35 minutes ago, Spoony said:

I agree with the highlighted sentiment but I think the rest is harsh in this instance. He did a decent job at Anderlecht and absolutely smashed the Championship with Burnley so it was clearly a good appointment. Wheels are coming off but the task to keep a team up is so so hard and maybe he wasn’t ready for that challenge but he earned the right to try by dominating the championship. That said, what they need right now is a more defensive and boring manager as they will just keep haemorrhaging goals as they are 

He didnt really do a decent job at Anderlecht though. Anderlecht would be the Real Madrid of Belgium and he won nothing

He only had a 45% win record

Edited November 12, 2023 by Zatman

[AXD]

5 hours ago, Zatman said:

He didnt really do a decent job at Anderlecht though. Anderlecht would be the Real Madrid of Belgium and he won nothing

He only had a 45% win record

Not true

they have been a financial mess for a while. He had to manage them on a shoestring, with the main transfers being loans. He did alright at Anderlecht.

 

[Pinebro]

Refusing to adapt will cost him

The pretty football can come a few season later once established

[VillaAlex]

The goalkeeper situation of signing James Trafford and playing him every week was a ticket alone to relegation.

He's got great potential, he can be a great shot stopper but more than any other position in the league you need experience there.

The kid has zero top league experience, he's weak, his positioning and decision making is poor. He had zero control of his area, he cannot organise a defence. It's almost a repeat situation of Meslier albeit he started brightly maybe aided by the chaotic Bielsa ball. He too has huge potential but needs a few seasons in the Championship before he's close to being capable. 

Emi only really started his career in his late 20s, Vicario has come to Spurs and looks great but he had a few seasons in Serie B and Serie A.

I remember when we signed Gollini and he even struggled in the Championship again because you need that experience and you will make mistakes.

They are totally doomed I think, they have nothing going for them. I like Koleosho and Foster (but he's out for a while). Otherwise their central midfield is poor, their defence is extremely poor and they're now playing Jay Rodriguez...

 

[foreveryoung]

Looks like he's about to break down everytime I see him interviewed. They are rubbish he is rubbish, an I think he should get out for his own mental health.

[andym]

On 12/11/2023 at 11:40, VillaAlex said:

The goalkeeper situation of signing James Trafford and playing him every week was a ticket alone to relegation.

He's got great potential, he can be a great shot stopper but more than any other position in the league you need experience there.

The kid has zero top league experience, he's weak, his positioning and decision making is poor. He had zero control of his area, he cannot organise a defence. It's almost a repeat situation of Meslier albeit he started brightly maybe aided by the chaotic Bielsa ball. He too has huge potential but needs a few seasons in the Championship before he's close to being capable. 

Emi only really started his career in his late 20s, Vicario has come to Spurs and looks great but he had a few seasons in Serie B and Serie A.

I remember when we signed Gollini and he even struggled in the Championship again because you need that experience and you will make mistakes.

They are totally doomed I think, they have nothing going for them. I like Koleosho and Foster (but he's out for a while). Otherwise their central midfield is poor, their defence is extremely poor and they're now playing Jay Rodriguez...

 

Looked awful for the goals conceded against Arsenal which all came from crosses into the box, just no presence. He's listed as 6ft 6, yet looked more like 5ft 6 any time a high ball came into the box.

Burnley remind me a bit of us when we first came up - a mix of young, inexperienced players and basically past it players. They actually play ok stuff in the middle of the park, but have big issues at either end of the pitch, in particular they are really easy to score against. Joint worst goal difference in the league.

We stayed up because during the Covid break Deano was able to swallow his pride and accept we couldn't play exactly as he wanted and needed to tighten up at the back. We improved enough to stay up by the skin of our teeth. The question for Burnley is whether Kompany can do the same.