magnkarl Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Genie said: No, you've completely mis-understood me. I suspect the authorities have had a higher figure of the total number from pretty much the start but they are electing to manage this by slowing increasing the number as time goes by rather than coming straight out with what they think...for example "we think based on the information we have he total death toll could reach 100". That's what people naturally want to know and are asking. The protestors last week who stormed the council offices were very angrily chanting that "its not 17" when this was all the police were revealing. On Friday they said "58 missing" but then added it included the 30 they knew actually weren't missing as they were confirmed fatalities they'd recovered... Today its 79, but expected to rise... I'm just not sure why they are so guarded over this information that everybody is asking, its nothing to do with the hard work of fire fighters or interrupting the grieving process of personal lost in other fires (I've no idea how you came to that conclusion either). The problem is that when people were shouting "it's not 17", the police had already listed over 23 dead. Someone pointed this out earlier in this thread. The numbers were on the police's pages. They are cautious because they probably do not know where everyone who is missing is yet. It would be an extremely horrible mistake to inform families that their loved one is dead when they could possibly be alive and well somewhere else. One thing is being upset - which is perfectly understandable. Protesting against a number that was updated way before they even started protesting seems a bit over the top. Also, sorry that my reply was a bit split, it was also a reply to the video Stefan posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 In summary, I think the police are playing the death toll down as much as they can get away with for reasons I'm not aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, Genie said: In summary, I think the police are playing the death toll down as much as they can get away with for reasons I'm not aware of. I agree, I think if they had admitted the probable death toll in the days straight after, it could have led to full blown riots. I think it could still happen personally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I agree, I think if they had admitted the probable death toll in the days straight after, it could have led to full blown riots. I think it could still happen personally. It definitely will happen if people keep watching youtube videos of people inciting anger and fear with claims that are either false, untrue or hugely overblown. The fact that the media are letting anyone and anything vent their frustration and anger on TV is making this whole thing worse. 1 person died last time we had London riots - now somewhere around 100 people are dead. The time to be critical of media and especially street preachers, is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, magnkarl said: It definitely will happen if people keep watching youtube videos of people inciting anger and fear with claims that are either false, untrue or hugely overblown. The fact that the media are letting anyone and anything vent their frustration and anger on TV is making this whole thing worse. 1 person died last time we had London riots - now somewhere around 100 people are dead. The time to be critical of media and especially street preachers, is now. it's pretty obvious that tens, if not hundreds, are dead though. I don't see what's being overblown here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, StefanAVFC said: it's pretty obvious that tens, if not hundreds, are dead though. I don't see what's being overblown here. You don't see what's overblown in the video you just posted that has no evidence other than two people saying they know someone who says that they found 40 people dead in one room? Come on man. That IS fueling all the rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Come on man. That IS fueling all the rage. I'd say that the rage is building regardless of some youtube videos. People are rightfully angry at the situation. They complained to the landlords about the building time after time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Just now, StefanAVFC said: I'd say that the rage is building regardless of some youtube videos. People are rightfully angry at the situation. They complained to the landlords about the building time after time. Yes, which has been said by the people who were part of the tenancy of the building. The two guys you just posted in this thread probably live within 10 miles of the building, claim to know someone, who probably claim to know someone, who apparently found 40 people dead in one room. Do you still not see how being critical of the speed the police publishing reports, while at the same time giving airtime to videos like that, is totally hypocritical? How do you think it is to be a close family member to any of the people that died in the fire, and to have to sit and listen to people embellishing/over-blowing/lying about stories that the fire crews would under NO circumstance tell anyone? When you join the fire services you sign several contracts to keep information like this quiet for a reason. You are seeing why now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LondonLax Posted June 19, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2017 I don't believe the conspiracy theory about police suppressing the number of fatalities. I think it is just that they are going on hard facts rather than taking a guess at the number like we are. If they find more remains they will update their total but until then they are just giving the facts to hand regarding the number of bodies recovered and the number of known missing people. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 59 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I don't believe the conspiracy theory about police suppressing the number of fatalities. I think it is just that they are going on hard facts rather than taking a guess at the number like we are. If they find more remains they will update their total but until then they are just giving the facts to hand regarding the number of bodies recovered and the number of known missing people. I'm more inclined to follow the lead of the police, than a couple of people on a youtube video citing a 'friend' who works for the fire brigade. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 2 hours ago, bickster said: Can you point me in the direction of the stats that tell you that most of the people that died in the tower weren't born in Britain? British born or not if this would of been in a more affluent area with low immigration numbers then we might of seen a different response from the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 I didnt vote Labour at the election and wouldnt want them in govenment now but you have to say that the years and years of penny pinching and look the other way when money should have been spent have come back to bit the tory arses in a very painful way in the last month. Will they learn the lesson this time or will they keep quite and hope it all blows over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, mykeyb said: I didnt vote Labour at the election and wouldnt want them in govenment now but you have to say that the years and years of penny pinching and look the other way when money should have been spent have come back to bit the tory arses in a very painful way in the last month. Will they learn the lesson this time or will they keep quite and hope it all blows over. Yep if this had happened a few weeks ago I think May would have done even worse than she performed in the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, mykeyb said: I didnt vote Labour at the election and wouldnt want them in govenment now but you have to say that the years and years of penny pinching and look the other way when money should have been spent have come back to bit the tory arses in a very painful way in the last month. Will they learn the lesson this time or will they keep quite and hope it all blows over. Sorry to go off topic but I wanted to ask whether you consider this Labour and the previous one (New Labour) as different? And if so does it matter to you? I've never seen a Labour government that really knew how to govern for the people without spending frivolously and so I preferred to vote Conservative as they seem to care about the balance sheet. However, imo things are now different and Labour are more representative of the values I thought we shared...though i'm v sceptical about the quality of many Labour MP's, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said: Sorry to go off topic but I wanted to ask whether you consider this Labour and the previous one (New Labour) as different? And if so does it matter to you? I've never seen a Labour government that really knew how to govern for the people without spending frivolously and so I preferred to vote Conservative as they seem to care about the balance sheet. However, imo things are now different and Labour are more representative of the values I thought we shared...though i'm v sceptical about the quality of many Labour MP's, Im not disputing the values comment but the "spending frivolously" is exactly what Corbyn manifesto is Edited June 19, 2017 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 19, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 19, 2017 Take this to the correct topic please, that's going way off 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Early footage from the fire engine. People had no chance http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40332427/grenfell-tower-fire-moment-firefighters-first-saw-the-blaze Quote Grenfell Tower fire: Moment firefighters first saw the blaze New footage reveals the horror of one fire crew approaching the Grenfell Tower fire in west London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) Chap on C4 news has said that after being in touch with councils across London, Barnet (who appear to have been the most proactive in getting out and checking the blocks in their area) have said that three of their ten blocks are fitted with the same cladding as Grenfell. It might cast doubts on the claims about it being 'banned in the UK' - though I suppose if banned stuff is fitted on one building it might be fitted on any number. They stress that this doesn't mean that they are unsafe. I'm not sure I'd be staying in them if I were one of the residents, though. Edit: The statement on Barnet's website is slightly different: Quote Although the cause of the fire at Grenfell Tower has not yet been established, Barnet Homes has commissioned an urgent review of cladded housing blocks of five storeys or more within the borough. There are ten blocks in total, which includes three blocks situated in the Granville Road development, NW2. These three blocks were inspected today Monday 19th June. The cladding system at Granville Road is different to what media reports suggest was used at Grenfell Tower. The insulation materials behind the exterior rain screen panels are different and made from a non-combustible mineral fibre material. In addition, fire stops have been installed at each floor level and around each window. The fire stops are also made of a non-combustible material We are currently inspecting the seven other blocks and expect our work to be completed by the end of tomorrow (Tuesday, 20th June). ...more on link Edited June 19, 2017 by snowychap Add statement from Barnet and change 20 something to ten as obviously misheard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) Police has found a Syrian family of 5 alive and well who were residents of the tower. If anyone were wondering why they've been careful with reporting on death tolls and missing, this is one of them. It is much better to be cautious until you know all the fact than facing a possible riot because people misinterpret a statement saying a full number. Edited June 19, 2017 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 31 minutes ago, Xela said: Early footage from the fire engine. People had no chance http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40332427/grenfell-tower-fire-moment-firefighters-first-saw-the-blaze This is why i dont understand local people saying they were being stopped from going in and they could have gone in and saved people. No chance they could have done anything.that was a ticking time bomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts