London Bridge Incident

[Chindie]

Just now, Xela said:

Welcome to the new normal on the streets of the UK.

I hope the powers that be have a plan.

The question is, what plan can there be?

Literally anyone can do this without much thought. Anyone can get a van, anyone can buy knives. Anyone can choose to run down pedestrians and stab people.

You can only hope they're stupid enough to openly speak about it long before doing it in traceable ways and you spot it. But because this requires so little thought and planning, there's less things to flag up, and more chances to slip through.

What else can be done?

[Chindie]

BBC confirm explosions from the bridge. Presumably controlled explosions on anything suspicious.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Chindie

[Midfielder]

FK ALL THESE C----

and rip victims. What the f am I reading I don't know if this is britain no more

 

[Xela]

35 minutes ago, Chindie said:

The question is, what plan can there be?

Literally anyone can do this without much thought. Anyone can get a van, anyone can buy knives. Anyone can choose to run down pedestrians and stab people.

You can only hope they're stupid enough to openly speak about it long before doing it in traceable ways and you spot it. But because this requires so little thought and planning, there's less things to flag up, and more chances to slip through.

What else can be done?

I don't know what the answer is, I hope the people qualified have some ideas! 

It will be interesting to see if the attackers, once identified, are known to the security services. They generally are.

There is not enough staff in these services to track everyone of 'interest'. Constant cuts to the Police and other front line services isn't helping. 

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by Xela

[LakotaDakota]

9 minutes ago, Xela said:

I don't know what the answer is, I hope the people qualified have some ideas! 

It will be interesting to see if the attackers, once identified, are known to the security services. They generally are.

Is there not enough staff in these services to track everyone of 'interest'. Constant cuts to the Police and other front line services isn't helping. 

 

Can't really watch 3000+ people 24 hours per day can you & that number is from 2015 so would imagine it is much higher now given the amount of shit that has happened over the past 18 months

[Midfielder]

14 minutes ago, Xela said:

I don't know what the answer is, I hope the people qualified have some ideas! 

It will be interesting to see if the attackers, once identified, are known to the security services. They generally are.

Is there not enough staff in these services to track everyone of 'interest'. Constant cuts to the Police and other front line services isn't helping. 

 

Boll--- to the general election, superficial promises of X and Y and Z. We need more protection. Sure it won't stop all. But f me too many innocent lives slain and set to continue at too regular a rate. We are sheep not realising our country is at war, and we aren't realising. Too much an escalation. A stealth civil war is upon us. 

Please don't anyone take that as a racist comment it genuinely isn't meant in any way to be. 

Edited June 4, 2017 by Midfielder

[Chindie]

2 minutes ago, Xela said:

I don't know what the answer is, I hope the people qualified have some ideas! 

It will be interesting to see if the attackers, once identified, are known to the security services. They generally are.

Is there not enough staff in these services to track everyone of 'interest'. Constant cuts to the Police and other front line services isn't helping. 

 

It's usually ask for more powers but cases like this its hard to say what more powers they can be given. Or ultimately, should be.

Monitoring people is incredibly man power intensive. Cuts certainly won't have helped. But it's impossible to give enough resources to monitor every threat all the time, so prioritisation must happen. So some will always slip through even if their name is on a threat list.

Witnesses and the apparent photo show at least 1 with strange canisters on him, if those turn out to be explosives that would highlight how difficult monitoring everyone is (and/or how easily a bomb can be made). If you're not watching, people can get the things necessary to make far more devastating weapons. And you can't watch everyone. And this may have happened very quickly which gives you less time to draw your attention to it.

You can't stop this. You can only hope you spot as many as possible.

[Daweii]

3 minutes ago, Xela said:

Is there not enough staff in these services to track everyone of 'interest'. Constant cuts to the Police and other front line services isn't helping. 

We could assign half the country to tracking every threat and an attack would still happen.

It's not an issue of not tracking effectively. It's an issue of the situation being that volatile that it's impossible to categorise a persons threat level.

The people that carried out this attack could have been deemed a high threat, but they could also have been so low on the list that no one was expecting them to do this.

These attacks aren't orchestrated bomb attacks, there are very few steps here. There is no intelligence like "So and so bought 600 bottles of hydrogen peroxide today, that's a bit odd". This is quite simply someone likely renting a van yesterday during the day and used it that night. How do you stop that? Without cameras and recording equipment live in every home in the country this can't be stopped. 

So watch-lists do work, the intelligence at MI5 has likely thwarted hundreds if not thousands of severe attacks, but incidents like this where a guy or multiple people take a vehicle and go nuts, then no amount of watching and tracking can stop that really.

[Xela]

Sun reporting 7 dead. 

5 attackers. 3 shot dead by Police. 

Edited June 4, 2017 by Xela

[Daweii]

1 minute ago, Xela said:

Sun reporting 7 dead. 

5 attackers. 3 shot dead by Police. 

Any word on the other 2? Assuming 'The Sun' are stating accurate stats. 2 attackers still at large is concerning considering this happened several hours ago. 

[Midfielder]

1 minute ago, Daweii said:

We could assign half the country to tracking every threat and an attack would still happen.

It's not an issue of not tracking effectively. It's an issue of the situation being that volatile that it's impossible to categorise a persons threat level.

The people that carried out this attack could have been deemed a high threat, but they could also have been so low on the list that no one was expecting them to do this.

These attacks aren't orchestrated bomb attacks, there are very few steps here. There is no intelligence like "So and so bought 600 bottles of hydrogen peroxide today, that's a bit odd". This is quite simply someone likely renting a van yesterday during the day and used it that night. How do you stop that? Without cameras and recording equipment live in every home in the country this can't be stopped. 

So watch-lists do work, the intelligence at MI5 has likely thwarted hundreds if not thousands of severe attacks, but incidents like this where a guy or multiple people take a vehicle and go nuts, then no amount of watching and tracking can stop that really.

You're so right there Daweii my man. Even though I think more public sector funding is required to try to limit what attacks materialise. My point though, is the reality of what your post means for the modern day. That these motherf----- will slip through the net and nothing can be done, or little anyway. 

W t f.

anyway, I'm so saddened by what happening within our borders. No point in me commenting further. These are tragic times.mthese times are becoming too regular. Im genuinely scared for th future. I don't know what the answer is. Sick motherf----

[Chindie]

3 minutes ago, Xela said:

Sun reporting 7 dead. 

5 attackers. 3 shot dead by Police. 

They've also reported a bystander in a pub was shot dead in the police crossfire.

[Xela]

2 minutes ago, Daweii said:

Any word on the other 2? Assuming 'The Sun' are stating accurate stats. 2 attackers still at large is concerning considering this happened several hours ago. 

That's what they are going with for their front page tomorrow (at the moment)

Hope the other 2 haven't disappeared into the wind. Hopefully they are dead as well but it just hasn't been reported yet. 

 

[Xela]

2 minutes ago, Chindie said:

They've also reported a bystander in a pub was shot dead in the police crossfire.

Jeez 

[Midfielder]

That's not good to hear. Fk... RIP just what the fk 

[Xela]

Sorry for linking to the Daily Mail...

Link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4569638/Car-ploughs-20-people-London-Bridge.html

Quote

Five jihadi terrorists shouting 'this is for Allah' have reportedly killed seven people and left dozens more injured in a horrific rampage around two locations in central London. 

The men, described as being 'of Mediterranean origin', mowed down up to 20 people with a white van at 50mph on London Bridge on Saturday night, then began 'randomly stabbing' revellers with 12-inch hunting knives. 

One person has been killed at London Bridge - and one of the casualties is reportedly a police officer. At least 20 people have been taken to six hospitals across London.

The knifemen then smashed into busy pubs and restaurants in the nearby Borough Market and began randomly stabbing revellers. One man was reportedly stabbed five times in the chest. 

 

The gang, with metal canisters strapped to their chests, smashed pub windows and cut the throats of drinkers. A 'dark-skinned' man in a red tracksuit 'calmly' stabbed a man three times, a witness said.

Two suspects were shot dead by a marksman outside the Wheatsheaf pub in Borough Market and one was gunned down and believed to be killed, as the remaining two suspects are on the run.

50 armed police entered Monument station with police dogs and bystanders were told to run. Bank and Monument tube stations have been closed. There are also unconfirmed reports of gunfire on Southwark Street.

 

[Midfielder]

I don't want to get all Question Time about what's the answer in reaction to this, action a b c whatever.... As someone with a science background my focus would be on prevention. I have ideas, not right wing, no point sharing here, but Jesus Christ whatever measures we have in place are not enough.

i totally agree with Daweii, in terms of whatever X is will never ever equate to Y, with Y being able to STOP all "plots" from being brought to reality and devastating consequence. We have allegedly 30,000 people on watch lists, and this is the actions tonight of five or so of these mother-----, these are scary times. 

"Prevention", that's a discussion out of place right here in this thread right now. But as said previously 

1- RIP all dead, please recover all who are injured

2- big fk you to all sympathising and supporting motherf----- and no doubt there are many that are

3- burn in hell, if there is a hell, to all c---- killed by our police

part of me here wants to do something, the nature in me to do so, can't do nowt, so fk it, try to sleep now. Won't be able to. Words speechless, close to posting summit that prob get me a warning or banned so will quite rightly shut the f up and logout. Goodnight lads. 

[TheAuthority]

 

[maqroll]

They're clearly waging war directly against England. At what point does this become more than a crisis? Expect the Tories to follow the Trump travel ban blueprint.

[maqroll]

Absolutely harrowing

Quote

Witnesses of the London Bridge and Borough Market attacks have told of the horrific events that unfolded shortly after 10pm on a busy Saturday night.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/04/it-was-a-rampage-witnesses-describe-horror-of-london-terrorist-attacks