HKP90 Posted October 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, bickster said: Did this come after the Putin interview / statement yesterday? Yesterday Putin seemed to be rowing back on the nuclear rhetoric by blaming the nuclear talk on crazy Liz Truss whilst on the other hand claiming "The West" was finished and suggesting that he will lead a new world order If this Xi statement came after Putin's then it really is a huge public slapdown for Putin Yeah, it could be huge, but I can't find any reference to this in large news orgs. Is it fake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Yeah, it could be huge, but I can't find any reference to this in large news orgs. Is it fake? It is being reported on Al Jazeera, the article is dated yesterday and seems to relate to Sunday and the close of the Communist Party Conference. So it predates Putin yesterday Quote President Xi Jinping says China and the United States must “find ways to get along” to safeguard world peace and development, state media reported. The Chinese leader’s conciliatory words follow after months of tension between Washington and Beijing over what the US views as China’s increasingly aggressive stance towards Taiwan, and Beijing’s refusal to condemn Russia’s war in Ukraine. Xi, who secured a third term as Chinese leader on Sunday, has rebuked what he termed “foreign interference” in Taiwan and said China would never renounce the right to use force to unite the island with the mainland. “The world today is neither peaceful nor tranquil,” Xi wrote in a congratulatory letter to the annual gala of the National Committee on US-China Relations, Chinese state broadcaster CCTV reported on Thursday. “As major powers, strengthening communication and cooperation between China and the US will help to increase global stability and certainty, and promote world peace and development,” Xi said in his message to the New York-based non-profit organisation. Xi added that China was “willing to work with the US to give mutual respect, coexist peacefully… (and) find ways to get along in the new era”. And given the lens of the wider reporting, it doesn't seem to be quite as reported in that tweet either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 28, 2022 Great photo. I suspect this one will be seen repeatedly for many years to come 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted October 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, bickster said: It is being reported on Al Jazeera, the article is dated yesterday and seems to relate to Sunday and the close of the Communist Party Conference. So it predates Putin yesterday And given the lens of the wider reporting, it doesn't seem to be quite as reported in that tweet either. Yeah. Well at least that's something. We can't underestimate the role of 'face' in diplomacy with China, too. After spending time in east asia (Viet Nam), I can say that it is extremely important. They are not Russia, who I think would implode if they ever said something that was 100% true. I think a combative stance with China is perhaps not the way forward as it is with Russia, who respect nothing but strength. What I think we need to give them due respect, whilst working with them to address the issues we have with their regime, something that absolutely wouldn't work with Russia. If we dictate to China, they could see it as a loss of face and become insular. Whilst we all hate the human rights violations, an insular inward looking China will not help anyone, including China, and they are too strong for us to batter into submission. Edited October 28, 2022 by HKP90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Mr_Dogg said: Is this a recent picture related to this war? It's always the US that do that anyway. It was said to be related. But that’s not really relevant. My curiosity was whether it’s simply a camouflage designed for an urban environment. If I wanted to drive a weapon from Glasgow to Dover without suspicion, making it look like an Eddie Stobbart truck seems a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maltesemike Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) A useful thread for those interested in what he exactly said. I cannot disagree with his sentiments that “the West” (i.e. largely the US) have self-proclaimed themselves as the arbiters of good in the world. US foreign policy and geopolitical manoeuvring is abhorrent and self-serving. But it’s hard not to see the irony in some of his statements too. We are in worrying times Edited October 28, 2022 by maltesemike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bannedfromHandV Posted October 28, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 28, 2022 Thing is though, if ‘the west’ was the evil it’s portrayed to be by so many dictatorships then why do so many people emigrate there? Its the best of a bad bunch in my view, ‘the west’ is far from perfect, corrupted by lobbying groups and self serving corporations, heavily influenced by media perceptions and ultimately driven by a pursuit of wealth and greed. Then you look at places like Russia, or Iran, or China etc where you can be detained indefinitely just for protesting against the serving govt/dictatorship, where your internet and general freedoms are censored on a daily basis, where corruption and greed are still rampant except you have no recourse to do anything about it. The ‘west’ has a lot of issues but if Putin thinks he’s going to establish a new world order based on Russian principles then he’s even more insane than I first thought. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: It was said to be related. But that’s not really relevant. My curiosity was whether it’s simply a camouflage designed for an urban environment. If I wanted to drive a weapon from Glasgow to Dover without suspicion, making it look like an Eddie Stobbart truck seems a good idea. They park up in massive US military bases, where ever that is in the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maltesemike Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Thing is though, if ‘the west’ was the evil it’s portrayed to be by so many dictatorships then why do so many people emigrate there? Its the best of a bad bunch in my view, ‘the west’ is far from perfect, corrupted by lobbying groups and self serving corporations, heavily influenced by media perceptions and ultimately driven by a pursuit of wealth and greed. Then you look at places like Russia, or Iran, or China etc where you can be detained indefinitely just for protesting against the serving govt/dictatorship, where your internet and general freedoms are censored on a daily basis, where corruption and greed are still rampant except you have no recourse to do anything about it. The ‘west’ has a lot of issues but if Putin thinks he’s going to establish a new world order based on Russian principles then he’s even more insane than I first thought. I cannot disagree with you on the freedoms and values we benefit from in the West. However, you should read carefully what he said. At no point does he push for a new world order based on Russian principles in his speech. On the contrary, he seems to be arguing for a multi-polar world order where different nations and civilisations are free to take their own path without hegemonic influence. May I add that I do not condone his actions, nor am I defending him. I am just clarifying what he seems to be saying. Whether he aims to preach this is a different story… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Thing is though, if ‘the west’ was the evil it’s portrayed to be by so many dictatorships then why do so many people emigrate there? Its the best of a bad bunch in my view, ‘the west’ is far from perfect, corrupted by lobbying groups and self serving corporations, heavily influenced by media perceptions and ultimately driven by a pursuit of wealth and greed. Then you look at places like Russia, or Iran, or China etc where you can be detained indefinitely just for protesting against the serving govt/dictatorship, where your internet and general freedoms are censored on a daily basis, where corruption and greed are still rampant except you have no recourse to do anything about it. The ‘west’ has a lot of issues but if Putin thinks he’s going to establish a new world order based on Russian principles then he’s even more insane than I first thought. I don’t think he wants to rule the world but I think he wants to be able to rule the ‘Russian’ world without ‘meddling’ from outside. He’s using this speech to appeal to other parts of the world who feel the same. The trouble for him is that the genie is out of the bottle with regards to the internet and social media reaching a global audience (except China) and the ideas of personal freedom spread on the internet are unsurprising pretty popular. Troublingly popular for people in his position. Edited October 28, 2022 by LondonLax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted October 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 28, 2022 What's better: A country founded on sound beliefs, but which has become somewhat corrupted and forgotten their provenance. or. A country founded on corrupt beliefs and continues to uphold them diligently? I'll take column A, personally. A fox that tells a sheep it is going to eat it may be honest, but it's still a carnivore. (I may be stretching the metaphor a little there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted October 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 28, 2022 34 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I don’t think he wants to rule the world but I think he wants to be able to rule the ‘Russian’ world without ‘meddling’ from outside. He’s using this speech to appeal to other parts of the world who feel the same. The trouble for him is that the genie is out of the bottle with regards to the internet and social media reaching a global audience (except China) and the ideas of personal freedom spread on the internet are unsurprising pretty popular. Troublingly popular for people in his position. Listen to one of Hitler's speaches, he never mentioned concentration camps and mass extermination of a race. Putin's a monster who's using the freedoms of western media to muddy the water for himself (in western eyes) while keeping his own people censored to the point where they think they are being attacked and threatened with nuclear destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 46 minutes ago, maltesemike said: I cannot disagree with you on the freedoms and values we benefit from in the West. However, you should read carefully what he said. At no point does he push for a new world order based on Russian principles in his speech. On the contrary, he seems to be arguing for a multi-polar world order where different nations and civilisations are free to take their own path without hegemonic influence. May I add that I do not condone his actions, nor am I defending him. I am just clarifying what he seems to be saying. Whether he aims to preach this is a different story… Yeah, but you have to remember that “free to take your own path” only applies to the strongest country in each region - that country should be free to bully the countries around them without outside intervention. Nobody else is free to take their own path though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 28, 2022 53 minutes ago, maltesemike said: I cannot disagree with you on the freedoms and values we benefit from in the West. However, you should read carefully what he said. At no point does he push for a new world order based on Russian principles in his speech. On the contrary, he seems to be arguing for a multi-polar world order where different nations and civilisations are free to take their own path without hegemonic influence. May I add that I do not condone his actions, nor am I defending him. I am just clarifying what he seems to be saying. Whether he aims to preach this is a different story… Not a literal translation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Panto_Villan said: Yeah, but you have to remember that “free to take your own path” only applies to the strongest country in each region - that country should be free to bully the countries around them without outside intervention. Nobody else is free to take their own path though. And the same within societies as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 In other words he thinks he should beable to invade whichever countries he wishes and have no-one intervene. Guessing the amount of support for ukraine took him by surprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 Just now, HAL said: In other words he thinks he should beable to invade whichever countries he wishes and have no-one intervene. Guessing the amount of support for ukraine took him by surprise That’s probably the West’s fault for doing nothing about the invasion of Crimea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, HAL said: In other words he thinks he should beable to invade whichever countries he wishes and have no-one intervene. Guessing the amount of support for ukraine took him by surprise I said from the start that I thought the reason for his invasion was because Ukraine was gradually turning democratic and ‘western’ and if that idea kept spreading eastward his position would be under threat in Russia itself. He almost lost Belarus two summers ago in the same way he lost Ukraine. Edited October 28, 2022 by LondonLax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 (edited) Bet he said he wouldn't invade anywhere else once he took crimea and he only wanted a new port and the west believed him. Probably why the west are taking a stronger stance this time Edited October 28, 2022 by HAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maltesemike Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 31 minutes ago, bickster said: Not a literal translation Hence my careful use of “seems”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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