Genie Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Putin’s circle of influence is shrinking fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NurembergVillan Posted September 20, 2022 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted September 20, 2022 55 minutes ago, Genie said: Putin’s circle of influence is shrinking fast. That'll happen when you're nervous. 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Does anyone think the Ukrainians should go further than just pushing the Russians back to the border? It would be quite a thing to see if Ukrainian forces decided to capture a couple of towns just over the border inside Russia. Not saying there's any prospect of them advancing on Moscow or anything but how do you think the world and Putin would react if they decided to humiliate him in his own back yard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted September 20, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted September 20, 2022 Just now, desensitized43 said: Does anyone think the Ukrainians should go further than just pushing the Russians back to the border? It would be quite a thing to see if Ukrainian forces decided to capture a couple of towns just over the border inside Russia. Not saying there's any prospect of them advancing on Moscow or anything but how do you think the world and Putin would react if they decided to humiliate him in his own back yard? Absolutely not. They would lose any credibility with the nations propping them up against an invasion if they then themselves started an invasion, regardless how small. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 1 minute ago, desensitized43 said: Does anyone think the Ukrainians should go further than just pushing the Russians back to the border? It would be quite a thing to see if Ukrainian forces decided to capture a couple of towns just over the border inside Russia. Not saying there's any prospect of them advancing on Moscow or anything but how do you think the world and Putin would react if they decided to humiliate him in his own back yard? I think it would change the dynamic drastically and backing of the West would be compromised. They need to push Russian troops back into Russia and then hold the border Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzavfc Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 1 minute ago, desensitized43 said: Does anyone think the Ukrainians should go further than just pushing the Russians back to the border? It would be quite a thing to see if Ukrainian forces decided to capture a couple of towns just over the border inside Russia. Not saying there's any prospect of them advancing on Moscow or anything but how do you think the world and Putin would react if they decided to humiliate him in his own back yard? I don't see what they'd gain from occupying russian land, and could cause them to lose some of their goodwill with the rest of the world 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 20, 2022 Moderator Share Posted September 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: Does anyone think the Ukrainians should go further than just pushing the Russians back to the border? It would be quite a thing to see if Ukrainian forces decided to capture a couple of towns just over the border inside Russia. Not saying there's any prospect of them advancing on Moscow or anything but how do you think the world and Putin would react if they decided to humiliate him in his own back yard? Not going to happen. That would actually give Putin a legitimate reason to put the nuclear option on the table 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 The only thing Ukraine should be doing is to try and recover all territory, including the Donbas and Crimea. Anything else and I agree with others, they lose all credibility and would probably see themselves getting nuked. Getting back what they lost pre 2014 would be a monumental recovery. It will never equate to the losses suffered but it would be the best scenario given the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 All or nothing for Putin now. He’ll double down rather than back down ; Looks like general mobilisation is on the cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 1 minute ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: All or nothing for Putin now. He’ll double down rather than back down ; Looks like general mobilisation is on the cards Where are you seeing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, ender4 said: Where are you seeing this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 10 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: All or nothing for Putin now. He’ll double down rather than back down ; Looks like general mobilisation is on the cards I think it’ll be the beginning of the end for him. Many of all ranks will refuse to fight an illegal war against their neighbour so I’d assume it’ll a massive internal shit storm leading to him being removed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Does Putin really want to destroy more of his own army? I reckon the bugger is using that as a lever in future negotiations, he's got feck all else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted September 20, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted September 20, 2022 He could conscript 5m troops. It wouldn't make a difference. he would just send them out with no food and no equipment to be blown to bits by modern hitec weaponry. It would be the kind of massacre not seen since WW1 with the brave boys marching directly into machine gun fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted September 20, 2022 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted September 20, 2022 Given the choice of ten years hard Labour (The proposed penalty for not joining the military under the proposals) or getting blown to bits in Ukraine, I suspect a lot will take the hard labour. Either way, general mobilisation has been avoided thus far by Putin for a reason. It won't be popular with anyone. It isn't just a conscription issue, it puts every company in Russia on a war footing and they must make or do as the government tells them to. It will bugger the Russian economy more than the sanctions the rest of the world has imposed on them. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 (edited) Mobilization will end Putin, no doubt. He'll quickly have to concede that it's a war and that he'll have to send even the sons of his power circles in Moscow and St Petersburg to the war to die without warm clothes on their back. The middle class in Western Russia have yet to be much affected personally by this, but having 10.000 sons from i.e Moscow dying for taking a pile of rubble that Russia already captured and lost would be the proverbial nail in the coffin. Ukraine will just roll the HIMARS batteries around Ukraine to bomb the crap out of the staging areas, it'll be a WW1 massacre like @sidcow wrote above. Ukraine are due a delivery of further 12 HIMARS and MLRS systems from NATO any day now, it'll be a shit show for Russia. Edited September 20, 2022 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 1 hour ago, desensitized43 said: Does anyone think the Ukrainians should go further than just pushing the Russians back to the border? It would be quite a thing to see if Ukrainian forces decided to capture a couple of towns just over the border inside Russia. Not saying there's any prospect of them advancing on Moscow or anything but how do you think the world and Putin would react if they decided to humiliate him in his own back yard? I don't think that is on the agenda and I don't really want to see a possible nuclear war. If the Ukrainians can reclaim all sovereign land and join NATO and the EU it will be a total victory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 1 hour ago, desensitized43 said: Does anyone think the Ukrainians should go further than just pushing the Russians back to the border? It would be quite a thing to see if Ukrainian forces decided to capture a couple of towns just over the border inside Russia. Not saying there's any prospect of them advancing on Moscow or anything but how do you think the world and Putin would react if they decided to humiliate him in his own back yard? Definitely not. They would be lowering themselves to Russia's level and would lose support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 (edited) On 18/09/2022 at 23:19, ml1dch said: Seemed interesting so I had a bit of a wiki-dive. She was one of the biggest stars in the Soviet Union from the sixties onwards, she's been with her husband for 20 years, they met when he was in his early 20s and she was in her mid 50s. They moved to Israel earlier this year, precisely for the reason you mention. Always nice to learn about new people. My wife (who's Lithuanian / Russian) said she is Russia's Madonna. One of those singers who although is no longer in the limelight, you reminisce and know every one of their songs (young and old). Whacking her would be a massive PR disaster for the Kremlin. Edited September 20, 2022 by pas5898 typo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 11 minutes ago, sidcow said: He could conscript 5m troops. It wouldn't make a difference. he would just send them out with no food and no equipment to be blown to bits by modern hitec weaponry. It would be the kind of massacre not seen since WW1 with the brave boys marching directly into machine gun fire. Twelve months ago you would have been wrong. Russia had a huge stockpile of Soviet era weapons that they could have allocated to conscripts. But they wouldn't have gone into battle. They would have freed up professional troops stationed elsewhere in Russia. But as of today, you are completely correct. Those stores of tanks, artillery and ammunition have been depleted. As have the number of professional soldiers willing to head into Ukraine. We are slowly seeing Russia withdrawing "their" army and replacing it with LPR/DPR conscripts, mercenaries and ex-convicts. All of whom are expendable and will also take the blame for defeat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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